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Since many of you are nerds or near-nerds, I thought I'd ask for your collective advice on this.

About a year and a half ago, some relatives of mine adopted a little girl at birth. Though this isn't actually an accurate descriptor of the family tree, every kid needs a maiden aunt and I'm the only maiden available, so she's my "niece" for the time being.

Anyway, I got to see my niece for the first time today at a small gathering, and I am absolutely convinced that the kid is a protonerd. My evidence:

She spent the first half of my visit taking her books around to different people, handing them off, and then ripping the books back out of the person's hand when they failed to start reading them to her quickly enough. She can in fact sit for indefinite periods of time and adoringly listen to someone read a book. This is unusual in hyperactive 1.5-year-olds.

At the midway point, I was asked to demonstrate Guitar Hero, and she was fascinated by the interaction of controller and screen. When I set it down after a song or two, she fussed with it until she figured out how to start a song, then handed me the guitar again and danced while I played. In time to the music, no less, which those who've seen me play DDR know is better than I ever do.

And all this is from a kid who couldn't walk a few short months ago! So clearly she loves the stuff.

My question is this: what gifts can I give to or things can I do for this little one to encourage her fascination with (a) books, (b) music, and (c) video games? As a nerd myself, I obviously have an obligation to encourage the perpetuation of the species.

I've already written a set of children's songs for her, though I haven't finished recording them yet so I don't know how she'll like them. In the meantime, her parents read to her. Everyone reads to her, actually. My mother gave her a small Tap-a-Tune piano, which she loves, but I don't know of any other "mini-instruments" that are similar. Her family has a PS2 and Guitar Hero (of course), but she's still a bit young to play it herself. And she loves gadgets and things that she can pull apart, but I think the electronics kit will have to wait a few years, more's the pity.

My maiden aunt gene, or whatever, has combined with my 37,000 nerd genes to become a ravening supermonster, champing at the bit to interfere in this epsilon's environment. So give me some ideas here.

Dr. Seuss, and when a bit older the redwall series is very good for young adults to read (I read the series when I was in 3rd grade.)

Dr. Seuss is better than most other authors just because it plays off of nonsensical ideas and stimulates the child's brain more causing more cognition.

There's a toy which I think is invaluble to any child who wants to stimulate their brain and they're called pipe works. I have no idea if these are still around, but they're essentially PVC pipes with different fittings and clips. You could build ANYTHING out of it (I'm actually using them right now as a football target.)

update: Sadly I just looked it up and it seems that they stopped production sometime in the 80s ...

erector set then... or kinex, not quite as cool, but still stimulates the mind.

On the music side, classical music never hurts, but children sometimes can't handle listening to it. I suggest Goreki's 3rd Symphony, it's a very powerful piece. Anything by Rimsky-Korsakov is good too.

A) Alphabet of Manliness by Maddox
B) The alblums "Overground Edition" and "Underground Edition" both by Teranoid feat. MC Natsack
C) Dungeons and Dragons, preferably the 2nd edition.


That'll be one fucking pimp kid. If she wants to live a life where men (probably nerds) can appreciate her, then you need to set her straight now. Tell her to eat right too, finding an attractive, nerdy, and normal (i.e. not a fucking psycho) young lady is like finding a needle in a haystack.

A) WINS MY HARRT LEIK 5 TIMESDCV B

Green Tea wrote:There's a toy which I think is invaluble to any child who wants to stimulate their brain and they're called pipe works. I have no idea if these are still around, but they're essentially PVC pipes with different fittings and clips. You could build ANYTHING out of it (I'm actually using them right now as a football target.)

I JUST PEED MY PANTS. me and my friends built sooooooooooooo much crap out of those. forts, tunnles, oh man. Its making me want to go steal them

Merk wrote: finding an attractive, nerdy, and normal (i.e. not a fucking psycho) young lady is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Fuck that, a hay in a needle stack.

Merk wrote:That'll be one fucking pimp kid. If she wants to live a life where men (probably nerds) can appreciate her, then you need to set her straight now.

Why would whether or not men appreciate her be a concern here? I don't know about you, but I think being a nerd is a great thing to be and allows one to lead a richer life - in spite of, not because of, its tendency to attract needy men.

Merk wrote:Tell her to eat right too, finding an attractive, nerdy, and normal (i.e. not a fucking psycho) young lady is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Good god, man, you sound like you're shopping in a meat market. Thanks for demonstrating why most smart women (self included) take great pains not to fall into all three of these categories at the same time.

I now wish I had never made this inquiry on this forum. Please tell me these comments were all sarcastic jabs at my desire to interfere in my niece's life, and not serious indicators of your mindset.

Potter wrote:

Green Tea wrote:There's a toy which I think is invaluble to any child who wants to stimulate their brain and they're called pipe works. I have no idea if these are still around, but they're essentially PVC pipes with different fittings and clips. You could build ANYTHING out of it (I'm actually using them right now as a football target.)

I JUST PEED MY PANTS. me and my friends built sooooooooooooo much crap out of those. forts, tunnles, oh man. Its making me want to go steal them

YES!!! I remember putting wheels on em and then pushing my brother through the house, or vise versa. God I wish we still had them

Pheadra wrote:

Potter wrote:

Green Tea wrote:There's a toy which I think is invaluble to any child who wants to stimulate their brain and they're called pipe works. I have no idea if these are still around, but they're essentially PVC pipes with different fittings and clips. You could build ANYTHING out of it (I'm actually using them right now as a football target.)

I JUST PEED MY PANTS. me and my friends built sooooooooooooo much crap out of those. forts, tunnles, oh man. Its making me want to go steal them

YES!!! I remember putting wheels on em and then pushing my brother through the house, or vise versa. God I wish we still had them

Heh. They do sound awesome. Too bad that they're no longer sold, but I may be able to pick up a used set somewhere and/or make something similar. (With my l33t power tool skills, of course.)

And BTW, thanks to everyone who's responded with serious suggestions. I didn't mean to overlook you all while responding to Merk. I just... ugh, she's 1.5 years old, can't we all just view her as a wonderful human being in training rather than beef on the hoof?

Anyone else remember Tinkertoys? I loved them, but they were sort of flimsy. Anyone know of something similar, only durable? (Aside from K'nex, which I'm looking into.)

God forbid a man or woman have a positive self image? Or rather it's more interesting why you'd be so offended by his comments. Would it really be so bad if she were attractive, nerdy, and 'normal' (not the word I'd use) at the same time? That being said, can I get a second on "most smart women (self included) take great pains not to fall into all three of these categories at the same time."? I'd like to hear some other self-proclaimed smart women's views on the matter. I think IndyDDR is a fair sample of smart schladies.

All of that aside, I'd suggest what's most important is keeping track of her friends while she is a child. Most children tend to get involved in the activites of their peers. Books, music, video games, legos, open-mindedness are all less likely to occur if these aren't activites her friends enjoy.

lol "smart woman" I thought we were through with oxymorons on here.

Fluffyumpkins wrote:God forbid a man or woman have a positive self image?

I don't get this remark. What does any of this have to do with self-image?

Fluffyumpkins wrote:Or rather it's more interesting why you'd be so offended by his comments. Would it really be so bad if she were attractive, nerdy, and 'normal' (not the word I'd use) at the same time?

I'd like to think not, but if his remarks are indicative, yes it would. To elaborate, it wasn't the "attractive, nerdy and normal" remark that bothered me, per se, it was that the entirety of his remarks seemed to be oriented around how to make her a great catch, not how to make her a happy individual capable of indulging her interests. If that's still as representative of the standard mindset as it was when I was growing up, she would probably experience the same thing I experienced as a young teen (which frustrated me to no end).

If that happens, it will go something like this: all the people she shares her interests with (though not all her friends) will be male, and when she and they hit puberty, they will no longer be interested in doing cool things with her, playing video games or talking about computers. As she progresses through her teen years, new people will begin to befriend her not because they care about her or want to share time with her but because they want to "have" an attractive, nerdy female in their orbit. No guy will want to be "just friends" - almost every guy who befriends her will make a push (either open or deceitful) to become her boyfriend.

There will be plenty of guys queued up to do things for her and tell her not to worry her pretty head about it, but there will be a mysterious shortage of fellows interested in teaching her how to do these things on her own (which would make her happy, but them obsolete). In short, she will cease to be a person in anyone's eyes but her own and perhaps her family's, and will become a status item or a piece of meat, depending on the surroundings. This will be exacerbated by the unpleasantness that all (?) attractive women have to deal with: the threat of rape, being hit on by random passerby, etc.

If she has the same response I did at the time, she will eventually decide that one of these things has to go, put on ~50 pounds, tape her breasts and never go outside showing more than 10% of her body surface. (Well, first she'll try acting like a dangerous nutcase and discover that the average male nerd really cares much more about your breasts and waistline than about your mental health, anyway.) This isn't really an ideal option for anyone involved in the situation, particularly given the amount of energy it sucks away from the things you'd rather be doing. Not to mention the extent to which people try to tell you that if you're not flaunting it, something's wrong with you as a woman. Maybe this is the self-image issue you referenced in the beginning?

If she has the same response most people do, OTOH, she will conclude that nerds suck, divorce herself from that culture and cease pursuit of her former hobbies. IMO, this is one of the main reasons that the mainstream stereotype of nerds is so negative in some respects.

This attitude towards attractive, balanced female nerds is the reason there are so few attractive, balanced female nerds. How many guys want to sit down and argue about which microprocessor has the best instruction set with such a person? How will she respond if none of them do - how many nerds want to go their entire lives in that sort of isolation? I didn't (still don't, actually), and I was/am the most asocial person I've ever known. So that's the answer to your question: the attitude typified by his remarks puts such people in a very bad position.

Fluffyumpkins wrote:That being said, can I get a second on "most smart women (self included) take great pains not to fall into all three of these categories at the same time."? I'd like to hear some other self-proclaimed smart women's views on the matter. I think IndyDDR is a fair sample of smart schladies.

We have many smart women here, but do we have any other female nerds? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but that means nothing - I'm notoriously good at forgetting people in such listings. I would be interested in hearing from them as well. My comment about "most smart women" is extrapolated from my conversations with other women who attended my university and later from female colleagues that I met in the workforce. It's probably an oversimplification, though - certainly some women handle the problem in other ways, such as wearing wedding rings (though they're not married) to try to signal unavailability or just accepting the new terms of their interactions with men and relying on exclusively female friends and avowedly gay men for support. But most of the ones I've talked to either deemphasize their femininity/attractiveness or just leave the field.

<*sigh*> Great. Now the thread's going to degenerate into an argument about how badly guys do or don't act when confronted with a beautiful nerd girl, and I know I'm not helping. Can we do topic splits on this forum, and if so, could we get one for this thread should the tangent go on a bit longer? I really would like to discuss the original question, too.

Arka wrote:being hit on by random passerby, etc

GOD FORBID SHE GETS HIT ON!

Arka wrote:If she has the same response I did at the time, she will eventually decide that one of these things has to go, put on ~50 pounds, tape her breasts and never go outside showing more than 10% of her body surface.

Next time someone says that girls mature more quickly than boys, I will urinate on them.

Potter wrote:

Arka wrote:being hit on by random passerby, etc.

GOD FORBID SHE GETS HIT ON!

This is the same forum where people were bitching and whining about a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship between an 18-year-old and a 14-year-old... I would think someone would care if a 10 or 12 year old gets hit on by adults.

But maybe not. After all, a male making unwanted advances towards a woman is very different than a mutually consensual relationship. I'm just surprised that this would be seen as a positive and not a negative for the former.

Potter wrote:

Arka wrote:If she has the same response I did at the time, she will eventually decide that one of these things has to go, put on ~50 pounds, tape her breasts and never go outside showing more than 10% of her body surface.

Next time someone says that girls mature more quickly than boys, I will urinate on them.

I like your self-deprecating humor, Potter, it suits you.