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CgSquall wrote:let's not forget all the documents the Catholic church has hidden in the Library in the Vatican that they won't let anybody but the Pope see. Who freakin knows what could be in there.

Probably recipes deemed too scrumptious for the general public. The Pope does make delicious key lime pie, and Cardinal Ratzinger makes a meatloaf to die for. Coincidence? I think not!

Heh he... I'd love to get into that library. Some of the oldest secrets on this earth are stored away there. There's a reason they're kept a secret, of course. The general public, as a whole, generally can't handle the truth. If we all knew what was really out there, really living along side us, we'd be too terrified to leave our houses.
So, naturally, I've sacrificed my own religious standings to find these things. I know they're out there, now I want to know why, and I want to know what they really are.

Any magic, even the simplest of spells (they DO exist, mind you.)

I see, could you explain the logistics of casting a magical spell? I'm curious as to how to do this so I can be all like, "You better back off rational science or I'm going to cast a spell on you!"

But on a serious note, if I actually do start casting spells I'll renounce God, wear pentagrams, black clothes, make-up, and create hundreds of tinfoil hat theories just to say, "Damn, that Original Sin guy was right all along! What a faggoty bible-thumper I've been all these years!"

lol not gonna happen lol

Original Sin wrote:So, naturally, I've sacrificed my own religious standings to find these things. I know they're out there, now I want to know why, and I want to know what they really are.

I don't understand why you've sacrificed your religion for that. I mean, if I were you, I'd do exactly the opposite, becoming one wicked awesome catholic, infiltrating the ranks, slowly but surely working my way up the ladder, 'till I finally reach Pope, or whatever status it is that gets me clearance to these files. One press release/Barbara Walters exclusive later, and the entire world knows how to make meatloaf you would kill for.

Probably recipes deemed too scrumptious for the general public. The Pope does make delicious key lime pie, and Cardinal Ratzinger makes a meatloaf to die for. Coincidence? I think not!

One press release/Barbara Walters exclusive later, and the entire world knows how to make meatloaf you would kill for.

That's some pretty funny stuff Ebola.

Hey Sin, I was wondering, do you believe in evolution? If you don't want to answer this you don't have to. I'm not trying to start an argument, I just want to see what you believe in.

Hes 3rd shift so dont expect an answer til maybe 8 this morning.....

Merk wrote:

Any magic, even the simplest of spells (they DO exist, mind you.)

I see, could you explain the logistics of casting a magical spell? I'm curious as to how to do this so I can be all like, "You better back off rational science or I'm going to cast a spell on you!"

But on a serious note, if I actually do start casting spells I'll renounce God, wear pentagrams, black clothes, make-up, and create hundreds of tinfoil hat theories just to say, "Damn, that Original Sin guy was right all along! What a faggoty bible-thumper I've been all these years!"

lol not gonna happen lol

Can you explain the logistics of prayer? Seriously. When you break it down, praying is the same thing as casting a spell.
I'll explain a little bit of what I've learned and theorized, but keep in mind, these are theories, and I've thought about them for a long time, with science in mind as well. I won't go any more in depth, because I know all you're going to do is mock whatever I say. If anyone IS curious however, PM me and I'll explain more in depth.

Anyone know the exact amount of the human brain the average human DOES NOT use? Yeah, it's pretty big. What do you think that brain mass is there for?
Secondly, where do you think psychic abilities come from? I'm not talking Miss Cleo either, I mean genuine psychics. Telekinetics, telepathy, pschokinesis, those things. Things that exist, but we can't exactly explain why they exist.
The truth is, every human being has a vast degree of psychic potential, psychic in this case being, the use of higher brain activity than the average person. However, most of us do not know how to use it, and a large majority of those who do, don't know why they can to begin with.
Now, telepathy is communicating with other beings using your brain.
Telekinisis and psychokinesis are manipulating the environment using your brain, such as picking up and moving objects.
All these activities and more, I believe, come from that portion of the brain that we've shut out. That's why only a select few people in the world know how to do it. Some are born with that ability, to use that side of their brain. Some learn how through extensive study and practice. however, there are other means to use that brain mass.
What we call spells, put simply, are nothing more than an extension of our will. We wish something to be, and it happens. The magic words, the music, the candles and insence...what's that for? It's not necessary, but it helps. Those things make you believe that you're doing the spell, make you believe it's going to work, and it triggers that side of the brain. When you learn how to do that, you CAN cast spells...but as anyone who is versed in spellcraft will tell you, it takes practice to get anything to work right. You have to learn to visualize and make it work.
Prayer, essentially, is the same thing. You ask for something to happen. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Where you go with that depends on your faith in God. personally, I believe in a god, or a higher force, but science doesn't, and you wanted a scientific explaination.

...that's the short version, by the way.

Moving on...Do I believe in evolution? I suppose I do. I certainly don't believe that the earth was created in seven days. Not seven human days, that's for sure. Seven days for God? Maybe. There's a lot of evidence for evolution, but I don't believe that humans just sorta...happened, either. I like to think there's a reason we came into existence. Divine influence? Maybe.

The reason I gave up my religion, for one, is because I did not believe in it anymore. Organized religion is a creation of man, no god created it. So, what we learn is not what god means for us, but what the humans who control us through the ages want us to believe. I believe in god, not by the book religion. That goes for any religion.
That's why I gave it up. So I could learn from all of them, find whatever truth I could, and move on to the next. I'm not godless, I'm not a sinner, I'm not a heretic. I believe in god, what I don't believe in, is what we have created, and what we have done 'in his name.' There is so much in this world that can't be explained by science, no matter how hard we try. That in itself is evidence of a higher power, something beyond our thought level and ability. What it is, exactly, we'll probably never know. Call it God, budha, odin, akasha, the great spirit, whatever you want, it all amounts to the same thing in the end.

Go ahead, mock me if you wish. But you asked, all I did was share.

heh.... id just like to say....

SO WHAT ARE YOU GIVING UP FOR LENT? hehe ...

anyways back "on topic " i belive in spells.. i belive that there is that other half of your brain that you can use that allows you to do wonderous things that no man thought he could do... like those monks... i forget where they are... but they would sit outside with a wet sheet overthem in the cold... and they would raise their body temp high enough to dry the sheets.... or when they would walk across coals... or there was this other monk who, in protest, lit himself on fire and just stood still untill he was burned away to nothing...

so i belive that there is another part of your brain that you can "unlock"... but its not the same kind of spells you would see in like Final Fantasy... so sorry no Fire3

atleast thats what i think of it....

Thank you...finally someone who knows what I'm getting at.
As for the final fantasy magic thing, it could work, but you would have to
manipulate the very elements in the atmoshpere around you to do it. Possible, yeah. But to do it, you'd have to be an expert, with a level of concentration and mental control that's, well, almost unheard of.

Essentially, it's the same thing as extremely advanced nanotechnology. In my technology class, they were saying that using nanotechnology, you could manifest anything out of molecules and elements in the air.
The only difference between that, and what I described, is that instead of using a tiny machine to do it, you're using your mind to assemble/disassemble the elements and molecules.

Oh, and Merk, your sarcasm isn't appreciated...being able to cast a spell doesn't make you a pagan, and neither does wearing black clothes and makeup. Going to church doesn't make you a good christian, either. Tin foil hats? I think you're getting your superstitions mixed up.

I can understand what you're sayin' sin, And it's occured to me as well. The human brain is an incredibly powerful thing, so who's to say what it can't do, right? But to tell the truth, I think it's wishful thinking. I mean, hundreds, if not thousands, have dabbled in the occult, but still no cool stuff. And quite honestly, I'm not about to start studying this stuff, because I think that in the end, we'd be trying to be like God. Reading people's thoughts and setting stuff on fire, while awesome, would just get us in a heap of trouble. Remember the tower of babel?

As for evolution, I don't believe in it. Yes, that is the religion talking. But really, when you think about it, the world is such a vast and intricate place, it doesn't make sense for it to have all come together so perfectly from billions of years of mother nature taking educated guesses.

As for that nanotechnology thing, I think your professor was feeding you a line. I mean, I'm definately no scientist, so I might be wrong, but I don't think there's a lot you can make out of particles in the air. Last I checked, I coulden't make a combustion engine out of dust, water, and air particles.

Please keep in mind that I am not mocking you at all. It's more in the spirit of debate that I post this than anything.

Ebola, can we call it Popeloaf, or would that be too sacreligious?

You should look into new-age ideas, they're much more functional and make more sense then western religion.

The idea is flipped that humans are existing in a relm of a supposud "God" and will pass on to a better place. Instead, we are god. Everything around you is existing together in a fashion unfathomable to any human. We have a few theories, but nothing can explain 100% how the world works (quantum theory...read up on theory or relativity, string theory, hologram thoery...the list goes on...)

The "religious" approach to new-age theology can be read in such books like the Conversations with God series. The idea with new-age religion is that man is not evil and is not working on repent. Rather, we're figuring out how to exist. Nothing in the universe is right and wrong, rather what works and what does not work. No human being is better than another, because there's nothing that sets one above another. Competition is a concept humans invented and support. The idea around new-age is that everything is essentially an energy. There's positive and negative energies. If you project negative energy, your surroundings will respond with the same. When you project positive energy, your surroundings will respond in a more positive fashion. I reccomend trying this out sometime, change your mindset on how you think for just a day, see how those around you react to you and interact with you...Sociology is an amazing tool.

Also, if you're interested in how the brain works I reccomend watching the movie titled "What the <bleep> do we know?" It's a battery of Doctors, Physicsts and Professors who explain New-Age in lamens terms and also connects it at a very core level to gain very basic understanding. I'd like to really explain how it all works but I'm busy at work...maybe I'll write a formal approach at a later date.

I'll explain a little bit of what I've learned and theorized, but keep in mind, these are theories, and I've thought about them for a long time, with science in mind as well

Yeah I really doubt that, I honestly don't see how you can believe that some magical force exist when logic and reason tell you otherwise. Either that or your knowledge of science is very limited.

I won't go any more in depth, because I know all you're going to do is mock whatever I say

I perfer to think of it as debunking your claims in an insulting manner. Besides, if you're trying to prove a point or belief to someone who doesn't believe you why wouldn't you go in depth? It's like saying, "Yeah I know 2+2=5 but I'm not going to really explain it because you're too ignorant." It seems to me that you don't really know what you're talking about and are just trying to look like a pseudo-intellectual. I am curious by the way, I wouldn't have asked you to justify your claim if I didn't care or if I was looking for more fuel with which to burn you. So hey, start sending that PM, like I said I'm genuinely curious how someone can believe magic exists.

Anyone know the exact amount of the human brain the average human DOES NOT use? Yeah, it's pretty big. What do you think that brain mass is there for?

The myth says that 10% of the human brain is used. However, even if that myth were true it would be a logical fallacy to assume that the remainder of the brain is used in "magical spells," telepathy, etc. This fallacy pops up all the time in paranormal claims, and is especially prevalent among UFO proponents. For example: Two people see a strange light in the sky. The first, a UFO believer, says, "See there! Can you explain that?" The skeptic replies that no, he can't. The UFO believer is gleeful. "Ha! You don't know what it is, so it must be aliens!" he says, arguing from ignorance.*
Also, while it is technically true that we use 10% of our brain, the myth really stretches that fact to make it seem like there is much untapped brain potential. What the myth doesn't take into account is that we only use 10% of our brain at one time! We don't need all of our brain to do things like eat, play DDR, watch TV, or sleep and therefore it is much more efficient to only use the energy required to use the 10% responsible for doing each action. So thoughout the day a person would use all of their brain, but would only use approximately 10% of it at any given time. Does that make sense? If not just read the link at the bottom, it does a real good job of explaining what I'm trying to say.
Additionally, don't even bother to say, "But if I used 100% at one time I could cast magic missle!" because you simply can't use 100% of your brain at one time. Your body would just fuck itself over from all the signals the brain would be sending. If you want to try using more than 10%, take your right leg and move it in a clock-wise circle. Now take your finger and try to draw a six in the air. In case you already know the answer, it's impossible. No one has done it, ever, ask a self-proclaimed wizard to do it, he'll just say some smart-ass remark and threaten to curse you.
For further evidence against the myth please read the link at the bottom, it is the best article I have ever personally read debunking the myth.

Anyway, on the subject of prayer, I personally find that prayer is basically a placebo. I pray occassionally but I know that it really makes no difference, it just makes me feel better. Prayer is sort of like a lucky charm, it doesn't really do anything but it gives the illusion that it did help in a difficult situation.

...that's the short version, by the way.

I see, could you give the long and more detailed version? You can take it to PMs if you want, post it here, or you can just give up on this argument. I hope the long version has some sort of scientific backing too. I really want to know how to cast a magical spell on someone, even just one time would be enough. Of course, since there hasn't been a case of a person casting magic, I'm a bit skeptical.

I believe in god, what I don't believe in, is what we have created, and what we have done 'in his name.'

Kudos to you, even though I think there has been a lot of good that has come out of religion and the benevolence that it brings out it people, there are also many acts that have used religion as a catalyst for greed and power. It is good to not subject yourself to blind faith, you have a sincere congratulations from me.

Oh, and Merk, your sarcasm isn't appreciated...

Well no crap, if I believed in something that I thought had some scientific backing to it and someone poked fun of it and said I was a loon I wouldn't appreciate it either.

being able to cast a spell doesn't make you a pagan, and neither does wearing black clothes and makeup

You're right it doesn't. But it does make you a Sik Twysted Goth Zombie Wizard MoThEr FuCkEr which was the angle I was going for.

Oh, and look up what the term Tinfoil Hat Theory means. Examples of such theories include, "There was a second gunman on the grassy gnoll," "The government is being controlled by aliens," and "There is really evil stuff in the library of the Vatican that will make people aware of all the evil in the world if it is released."


* Taken directly from http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm. I implore you to read this as it does a great job of debunking that "We only use 10% of our brain so we're actually potentially really powerful beings" myth.

I have to echo Merk's general skepticism here, although I try keep an extremely open mind about all things and I'm the first to admit that our current science isn't perfect. I even sometimes believe in the POSSIBILITY of psychic abilities. But I certainly don't believe that spells, or prayer, or any other mental gymnastics will make anyone burst into flames, levitate a stapler, or keep a loved one from dying of cancer.

By the way, I also highly recommend snopes.com, as well as randi.org and straightdope.com, if you're interested in getting no-nonsense facts. There's also a great show on Showtime called Bullshit, hosted by Penn and Teller, that's now available on DVD. Check it out...

Yes, as a matter of fact, I was going to bring up Bullshit but I later decided that there was basically no need to do so since Miss Cleo style "powers" weren't under question.

But uh, yeah, what Jim said. If you have a Netflix.com account then rent Bullshit, it does a real good job of foiling myths and the people who profit from them. I watched the first season not too long ago and the second season should arrive in my mailbox not too long from now.