[Grubb's] Random Thoughts of the Day

[Original Sin]

Speaking of substances, Absinthe isn't half bad when you mix it half and half with sparkling water (I'm using S.Pellegrino at the moment) and one sugar cube. It's very sweet, and the nasty absinthe flavor doesn't shine through as much as it normally does.

Yay, I can drink it without the urge to vomit now.

[malictus]

Why do people keep talking about lucid dreaming as an altered state of consciousness when in fact you're unconscious?...

Evidently you don't understand the definition of a lucid dream or you don't know the definition of consciousness -

Lucid dreaming is the conscious perception of one's state while dreaming, resulting in a much clearer ("lucid") experience and usually enabling direct control over the content of the dream.

[Arka]

Not sure about anyone else... the reason I listed it is because I experience continuous consciousness, i.e., there's no break in my awareness when I fall asleep, and I would argue I'm experiencing dreams with the same mind that I experience normal life with.

(In fact, that's an oversimplification, since I do "lose my train of consciousness" at times, but doing so is the exception to the rule and causes different freakish, bizarre types of dreams anyway.)

[sam]

you don't know until you experience


and if you think you might be experiencing something

you're not

you will know when it comes.

[Fluffyumpkins]

Yea man, like feel the love.

[Fagulous]

Potter, I think you're missing my point; you asked for 'proof' of a way to induce hallucinogen-like effects without drugs, and lucid dreams are exactly that. I admit it takes a lot of practice, but it's incredible when it works (I'm talking about CONSCIOUSLY controlling your dreams, not just dream awareness), and it's 100% safe with no chance of flashbacks, getting arrested, or going insane.

EDIT: Obviously as someone who's never used a hallucinogenic drug, I can't say from first hand experience that lucid dreaming is similar. But I do think science is behind my claim, since LSD simulates a 'waking dream' state chemically. I'd look up a link or something but I'm too lazy...

I don't know about you, but my lucid dreams are mush less vivid than my regular dreams(that is to say the few lucid dreams i've had). Anytime I realized I was dreaming a lot of the details started fading out and when I tired to bring them back, I felt the control slipping away. I slipped out of realization(I guess that's what they call it.) 5 times in one dream trying to fuck around with the visuals.

Maybe that just means I need to meditate more or something, but so far my visual trip experiances have pwn'ed lucid dreaming.

[Arka]

...Anytime I realized I was dreaming a lot of the details started fading out and when I tired to bring them back, I felt the control slipping away. I slipped out of realization(I guess that's what they call it.) 5 times in one dream trying to fuck around with the visuals.

Maybe that just means I need to meditate more or something, but so far my visual trip experiances have pwn'ed lucid dreaming.

No, you just need practice with your dreams. There's a right way and a wrong way to fiddle around with them. The good news is that it really doesn't take that much practice. But I guess if you've only had a couple of lucid dreams, you haven't really had a chance to practice yet.

You may also need practice with concentrating on multiple things at a time. Most people (when they dream) only experience perceptions from one or two of their senses at once. The difference is that when they dream lucidly they notice that and it seems odd. (If you want more information on this, tell me and I'll try to dig up a study reference.)

When I was a child (say 4 years old), I started out being able to perceive only one or two senses at a time in any dream. That number increased to 3 when I was about 8, and jumped to 5 when I was 10 or 11. While I can't say I find IQ to be a valid indicator of intelligence, it is interesting to note that this corresponded to increases in my IQ (as well as with changes in my personality and the way I used my mind).

[sam]

and the day when akara percieves 32 senses the jabberwalkie will rear his head and the universe will implode upon itself a thousand times

your brain is an organ just like any other part of your body. if you practice enough with it you can do anything. there are monks that are able to dialate the capilaries on their skin which allows their skin to get so hot that they can dry off a soaking wet cold towel that would normally give you hypothermia. all it takes is some books, determination and patience.

iq is an insignificant number. quit masturbating your so-called intelligence please it's pretty sickening. i'm in mensa if you really want to flex nuts.

[Arka]

iq is an insignificant number. quit masturbating your so-called intelligence please it's pretty sickening. i'm in mensa if you really want to flex nuts.

Get out of bed on the wrong side this morning?

Newsflash: if I wanted to show off my IQ, I would tell you what my IQ was. I mentioned the anecdotal correlation with IQ only because I thought it was interesting. I specifically avoided mentioning numbers because I didn't want the issue of my IQ to distract from the subject at hand. Not that it helped, since you're apparently desperate enough on the topic to inject posturing into any conversation.

If you want to have something to brag about, go join the Mega Society. I still won't care, because I've known smart people who tested as low as 80 and idiots with IQs as high as 160. But maybe some people will.

Now, aside from your inexplicable IQ tangent, I basically agree with your post - I have no doubt that there are plenty of things the human brain can't do, but the threshold is in reality much higher than we usually assume.

[sam]

Get out of bed on the wrong side this morning?

Newsflash: if I wanted to show off my IQ, I would tell you what my IQ was. I mentioned the anecdotal correlation with IQ only because I thought it was interesting. I specifically avoided mentioning numbers because I didn't want the issue of my IQ to distract from the subject at hand. Not that it helped, since you're apparently desperate enough on the topic to inject posturing into any conversation.

If you want to have something to brag about, go join the Mega Society. I still won't care, because I've known smart people who tested as low as 80 and idiots with IQs as high as 160. But maybe some people will.

Now, aside from your inexplicable IQ tangent, I basically agree with your post - I have no doubt that there are plenty of things the human brain can't do, but the threshold is in reality much higher than we usually assume.

the brain is a series of electric connections. if you reinforce a thought enough the synaptic connections become stronger and attach to areas that are more commonly accessed by your brain. it has nothing to do with intelligence; just frequency.

[Arka]

it has nothing to do with intelligence; just frequency.

IQ IS NOT INTELLIGENCE!

Sorry to yell, but I'm getting really sick of telling people this. It should be obvious. My comment on the correlation between "sense multitasking" in dreams and IQ did not have anything to do with intelligence.

In fact, I find the correlation (in my own personal case, not in any kind of scientific study) interesting in large part because it suggests that IQ is more related to a person's intellectual multitasking ability and their practice in certain things than it is to their actual intelligence.

It's like pointing out that I didn't get a perfect GRE score until I took the test wearing a business suit. Why? Probably because wearing a suit changes my mindset, and my mindset was more similar to the testers' mindsets and/or more conducive to giving the testwriters "what they wanted to hear" on the more subjective test questions. Or maybe the change in my psychology reflected by the willingness to wear a business suit changed my answers in ways that made them more amenable to the testwriters. Or maybe (probably!) it's just a freaky coincidence. I don't think this implies that my clothes affect my academic ability - rather, it casts an aspersion on the validity of the GRE as a predictor of said ability.

[sam]

IQ = intelligence quotient

the measurement of one's 'ability to learn'

the definition of intelligence
Intelligence is a general mental capability that involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend ideas and language, and learn. In psychology, the study of intelligence is related to the study of personality but is not the same as creativity, personality, character, or wisdom.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_(trait)


HMMMMMM

[Arka]

IQ = intelligence quotient

the measurement of one's 'ability to learn'

No, IQ is not "the measurement of one's ability to learn." A measurement is when I hook up my multimeter to a device and see how much current it's drawing. A measurement has a specific value and uncertainty that can be concisely related to a physical reality.

IQ is AN ATTEMPT at measuring one's intelligence. Repeat: an attempt. And not a very good one, particularly given all the politics that go into the normalization process and question selection. Generally speaking, people with low IQs will experience less success at life and in particular at abstract or conceptually demanding tasks than people with high IQs. But how much less success? We don't know, even for a large aggregate of people. How sure are we that that will happen for any given person? We're not.

Measuring the intelligence of a person with an IQ test is like measuring the current through a device by hooking up a hundred rodents in series with it and counting how many of them die. Sure, if a lot of rodents die the current is probably greater than if only a few rodents die. But how much greater? How sure are we? And what other factors are we overlooking, like voltage?

I know people who I consider as "intelligent" as me who only have IQs of 140 or 150. I know at least one such guy whose IQ has varied between 80-138 over the course of his life. I also know of a few people whose IQs are comparable to mine but who strike me as blithering idiots.

I like the idea of IQ, and I participate willingly whenever I'm asked to showcase my performance on an experimental test. But I don't delude myself into thinking that those numbers measure something that I can honestly call intelligence. They don't - they measure IQ.

[sam]

so if you accept iq being such a shitty measurement of intelligence, why even bother toting your amazingly high iq? it's a moot and retarded point.

[Arka]

so if you accept iq being such a shitty measurement of intelligence, why even bother toting your amazingly high iq? it's a moot and retarded point.

At what point did I tell you what my IQ was or even suggest that I had a high IQ? You were the only one who felt the need to flaunt your IQ credentials.

Actually, looking back at my last post I did make the mistake of citing specific numbers for people with lower IQs than me. <shrugs> I don't really care. You felt the need to talk about your i-penis well before I said anything suggesting that I had a high IQ. Is there a reason you're still flaming about this subject, or are you just bitter that I'm not impressed you're in Mensa?