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Fluffyumpkins · Post by **Fluffyumpkins** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:25 pm

Original Sin wrote:Hey, I'd dress like that. I'm a musician. Am I a sell out?
Look at any decent band that's been around for a long time. This thing happens. It infuriates me to see all these kids scream 'sell out' when a band finally busts their ass and becomes successful. It's not easy, you know. It takes A LOT of work to get that far, and as far as I'm concerned, they deserve it. One of the rules of being a musician, is that you have to be aware of the time and place, and have to be willing to adapt to it, or inevitably, YOU WILL GO UNDER. Look at what happened to the huge 80's metal scene when Nirvana came around. For all intensive purposes, it died. Some of them are still around, and a few are actually picking up steam again, but look how long it's been.
The point of the matter is, the public's opinion of music changes over time. It fluctuates rapidly. Career musicans alter their music frequently because of this, as well as artistic reasons as I explained before, which was obviously overlooked.
Go ahead, write 3 or 4 albums of the same style, and try to tell me you're not sick of it. You can only draw so much inspiration from the same thing before it gets old, and eventually, people will get sick of it too.

You honestly believe that this was a decision on Green Day's part? On such a marketable level, 'art' is far from what they're trying to create. I'm not calling you an idiot, just naive for believing that theres a motivational factor other than money at work. I say when you quit making music for the sake of of creation, and start making it like a product, you sell out. I'm done arguing this though as we've clearly both presented our points and neither of us will budge. That and we've derailed from the topic enough as is.

Original Sin · Post by **Original Sin** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:44 pm

It's rather pointless to argue exactly what their motivation is, since I doubt either one of us is on speaking terms with the members of Greenday. So, that's pretty much where it has to end.
I wouldn't say I'm being naive, I know how record companies work with things like this, but it varies tremdously based on individual artists and what they're selling. Some give you almost complete freedom to produce what you want, when you want, while others practically want to write it for you.
The same thing happened to Trent Reznor after his first album, and from what I heard, he's still dealing with some of the legal issues that sprung from him breaking off with his original record label. This isn't always the case, however. They generally only do things like that to ensure the success of a follow up album, to make sure it sells just as well, if not better than the first. Anyone who listens to NIN knows, of course, that's bullshit. Reznor's never put out the same album twice: Everything about the style is reworked and rewritten.
Personally, I would rather listen to this style of music than a band that continously produces the same style of music for every album, regardless of the reason, be it artistic or corporate.
Personally, I thought Green Day's new album was refreshing. Not my favorite, but it was something a little different.

CaseyDidder · Post by **CaseyDidder** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:05 am

seriously who cares. Green Day sucks. Blink 182 sucks. MOST bands on the radio suck. But you know why people like them? Because they are on the flippin radio. Shit, you could put the worst, whitest rapper on the radio and guess what, PEOPLE WILL LIKE HIM because

"yo dawg you hea dat hot shiat on da flippin hot 96.3 dawg? I haed he got shoat liak 10 timsz"

Exactly.

Which leads me to Fifty Cent, he sucks. Know how he advertises? SETUP shootings to pump up his next album, and it actually worked.

XxJennaxX · Post by **XxJennaxX** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:52 am

Green does not suck.

j/k

built-to-spill · Post by **built-to-spill** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:10 pm

Green does suck.

The last two singles I remember from Green Day before AI were Warning and Minority, and neither of those songs were about Masturbation and they were good.

From their new record:

American Idiot: I really don't appreciate being referred to as an idiot because I'm not a tree-hugging hippie.

Boulevard of Broken Dreams: Worst single of their careers by far, just listen to it, it's so boring and the lyrics are completely insipid and unoriginal.

Holiday: I like it until he starts talking about senators and a bunch of other poopy propoganda.

Plus the all black and make-up is stupid for anyone, especially a washed up bunch of 30-something-year-olds.

Pheadra · Post by **Pheadra** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:13 pm

built-to-spill wrote:Green does suck.

The last two singles I remember from Green Day before AI were Warning and Minority, and neither of those songs were about Masturbation and they were good.

From their new record:

American Idiot: I really don't appreciate being referred to as an idiot because I'm not a tree-hugging hippie.

Boulevard of Broken Dreams: Worst single of their careers by far, just listen to it, it's so boring and the lyrics are completely insipid and unoriginal.

Holiday: I like it until he starts talking about senators and a bunch of other poopy propoganda.

Plus the all black and make-up is stupid for anyone, especially a washed up bunch of 30-something-year-olds.

Heres the funny thing about it though...they are making more money off of Boulevard of Broken Dreams then we will in our lifetimes...I say go Green Day!

Original Sin · Post by **Original Sin** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:17 pm

CaseyDidder wrote:seriously who cares. Green Day sucks. Blink 182 sucks. MOST bands on the radio suck. But you know why people like them? Because they are on the flippin radio. Shit, you could put the worst, whitest rapper on the radio and guess what, PEOPLE WILL LIKE HIM because

"yo dawg you hea dat hot shiat on da flippin hot 96.3 dawg? I haed he got shoat liak 10 timsz"

Exactly.

Which leads me to Fifty Cent, he sucks. Know how he advertises? SETUP shootings to pump up his next album, and it actually worked.

You're right about the radio thing for the most part. In general, if I get a CD by a band that IS on the radio, I don't even listen to the singles they had released. They're rarely the 'best' song on the CD, and frankly, I just get sick of hearing it. The radio has that notorious habit of overplaying everything.
And I do agree that 50 cent sucks, but I'm a little biased. I hate rap in general. I have been forced to listen to it, 50 cent included, for long periods of time, and heard nothing I liked.

built-to-spill · Post by **built-to-spill** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:23 pm

Yeah, and people in Holland kindapping girls and pimping them out as protsitutes in the red light district while the girls die slowly of hundreds of STDs are making more money than I will in my entire life so.....go.....disgusting.....pimps??

HAHAHAHAHA it's so funny!

Pheadra · Post by **Pheadra** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:39 pm

built-to-spill wrote:Yeah, and people in Holland kindapping girls and pimping them out as protsitutes in the red light district while the girls die slowly of hundreds of STDs are making more money than I will in my entire life so.....go.....disgusting.....pimps??

HAHAHAHAHA it's so funny!

Well thats not irrelevant to the subject at all. But at any rate whether you like Green Day or not, what they seem to be doing seems to work.

Original Sin · Post by **Original Sin** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:45 pm

built-to-spill wrote:Yeah, and people in Holland kindapping girls and pimping them out as protsitutes in the red light district while the girls die slowly of hundreds of STDs are making more money than I will in my entire life so.....go.....disgusting.....pimps??

HAHAHAHAHA it's so funny!

I see the point you were trying to make, but the example you used was terrible. What Greenday is doing isn't hurting anyone. It's the music business, and like it or not, that's how it works. That's how it's always worked, and will continue to work for some time.
I wouldn't 'sell out' as you put it with my music, but in order to do what I want to do, I would need to play large shows, and make enough money to pull it off. The type of live show I want to do just could not be played in a small venue. In order to play large shows, you have to have a large fan base. In order to have a large fan base, you have to mass distribute your music. The best example of this is the radio, and now, the internet.
Look, in order to get a huge record deal, you basically have to sell your soul. Any band with that big a deal has to make sacrifices for it, no matter what genre you're in.
I can almost guarantee that almost any band with a record label has had to make some kind of change or sacrifice on account of the corporate entity. I'm not just talking about the big name labels either.
'Indie' labels are a lot less notorious for this, but they also have a lot less riding on them. They generally don't book large shows on account of one or two bands, and have less money riding on the gamble of the bands success. Sure, they'll book you into Ozzfest, for example, or any large shows like that, because they're a guaranteed turn out, just because of the other big name bands that will be there.
Now, one or two mainstream bands can easily fill up a stadium on their own. Why? Larger fan base.
How do you get a larger fan base?
Radio.
How do you get on the radio?
Corporate entities. Yes, that means record labels, and marketing agents.

built-to-spill · Post by **built-to-spill** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:59 pm

I have no idea how you could be saying that Green Day needed to be anymore mainstream. They've been incredibly popular ever since they started playing. Everyone had heard of Green Day before American Idiot, except the girl in El Scorcho.

I don't hate their new album because they sold out, even though they did, I hate it because the music was horrible and it completely lacked all of the fun. And they jumped on the anti-bush bandwagon along with every other aritist last fall.

Original Sin · Post by **Original Sin** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:10 pm

I wasn't saying Greenday needed to be any more mainstream, that was just about music in general.
For the record, I like American Idiot, but it's not my favorite. Personally, I like Nimrod. I loved that album, but sadly, I lost it somewhere.

SirPhobos · Post by **SirPhobos** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:43 pm

CaseyDidder wrote:
Which leads me to Fifty Cent, he sucks. Know how he advertises? SETUP shootings to pump up his next album, and it actually worked.

what i don't get about Fifty Cent is how anyone could tolerate his horrible-ass monotonous voice for the duration of an entire album?

Not once have i ever heard his voice change to any pitch other than what sounds as if he just says what's written on paper somewhere.

This defeats the purpose of being a rapper, or even a singer. He should be classified more like a black Baz Luhrmann, talking about sunscreen over a hip-hop drumtrack.

Fifty Cent has no talent whatsoever, and i hope to god something ends his horrible excuse for a career.