Okay. So the other day I was doing some service on our DDR machine, hooking a speaker back up, fresh installing Extreme (don't ask), and cleaning the pads.
I noticed a few things. First, our 573 has a USB port on it. I've never seen a 573 with a USB port. Brian, what does your 573 look like?
Also, someone wanted to downgrade to 5th mix. We have legit kits, so this is somewhat of a problem. But our 5th mix is a 2disc bootleg with security IC soldered onto a somewhat decently sized PCB.
The only problem is I have to pry the current security IC out of the I/O board and replace it with a giant PCB that it obviously a security bypass chip (i.e. a modchip for DDR). However it's not where it should be. Or I don't know where it should be. Or something.
Our security CART is a 3rd mix Asian cart with an Extreme sticker over it. So there's that. It's a Kor2 573, a s it says. Horizontal CD-ROM drive.
Why is there a USB port? Why have I never seen this before?
Where is the digital I/O board at here, and why would I need to do this?
I have a paper with "instructions" and could obtain pictures tomorrow (I guess) of these papers, the 573, this IC that I need to put in, whatever.
Somewhat technical discussion about our 573.
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!A2DLTGvAOw
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Both of my solo(/Pop'n Stage. Yes, they use the same hardware) 573's have a USB port right next to the dip switches.
I've often wondered WHY it's there.
Obviously, it's there for a reason, but it dosn't even show up on my wiring diagrams. http://nabollo.com/soloschem.pdf
I got these out of a manual for pad upgrades from standard solo pads to deluxe solo pads, so it dosn't go into detail about the system573 unit. Just how to construct the upgrade pads.
I've often wondered WHY it's there.
Obviously, it's there for a reason, but it dosn't even show up on my wiring diagrams. http://nabollo.com/soloschem.pdf
I got these out of a manual for pad upgrades from standard solo pads to deluxe solo pads, so it dosn't go into detail about the system573 unit. Just how to construct the upgrade pads.
Penis size is inversely proportional to signature size.
The "USB" port is for memory card slots. If you don't have slots, nothing will be plugged into this port. Also this port is not (as far as I can tell) actually USB: it is RS-485. Both the line driver on the S573 board as well as the corresponding one on the memory card board (which is really overblown, but that's another topic) are RS-485. This is electrically similar to USB, but not identical. I'm guessing the link level protocol inherent in USB is also missing, though I have not verified this.
The bypass chip has two or three major components. The most obvious is a UV erase (possibly flash, but all that I have seen are UV erase) EPROM. This contains the data that is on the old stock Konami ROM. I haven't done a comparison, but I suspect the contents are identical. The second component is a microcontroller, usually a PIC. This intercepts signals on the system address and data bus to fake out the security checks - a function similar to a Playstation mod chip (the S573 is actually basically just a developer playstation, though the security procedures are completely different from a production PSX). The third chip is usually a programmable logic device, presumably for address decoding.
Installation is simple: remove the stock ROM (it is socketed). A small screwdriver can be used. Simply pry one end (gently) until it lifts, then do the other side. Repeat until the chip is out. The mod board then plugs into the vacant socket. You will, of course, need to remove the top cover of the S573 to do this. The chip you're looking for is right next to the "backpack" RTC NVSRAM. It is a classic PDIP through-hold component and says "Konami" on it (what a surprise).
Some bootleg kits require a security cart of some form (obviously not a real one) to be installed, while others do not. My only experience is with 2-disc sets that require no security cart (the blue T thing). Also, not all mod boards can boot all bootleg kits.
The digital I/O board has a couple of giant FPGAs on it. These are bootstrapped as an MJPEG decoder (for the backgrounds) and an MP3 decoder (for the music). This is the giant key-shaped daughterboard stacked on the main S573 board. It will obscure your PCMCIA slots, if that gives you an idea of where it's at. This is a Bemani specific item: DDR, GF, and DM use this board (possibly Dance Maniax, I don't remember).
The bypass chip has two or three major components. The most obvious is a UV erase (possibly flash, but all that I have seen are UV erase) EPROM. This contains the data that is on the old stock Konami ROM. I haven't done a comparison, but I suspect the contents are identical. The second component is a microcontroller, usually a PIC. This intercepts signals on the system address and data bus to fake out the security checks - a function similar to a Playstation mod chip (the S573 is actually basically just a developer playstation, though the security procedures are completely different from a production PSX). The third chip is usually a programmable logic device, presumably for address decoding.
Installation is simple: remove the stock ROM (it is socketed). A small screwdriver can be used. Simply pry one end (gently) until it lifts, then do the other side. Repeat until the chip is out. The mod board then plugs into the vacant socket. You will, of course, need to remove the top cover of the S573 to do this. The chip you're looking for is right next to the "backpack" RTC NVSRAM. It is a classic PDIP through-hold component and says "Konami" on it (what a surprise).
Some bootleg kits require a security cart of some form (obviously not a real one) to be installed, while others do not. My only experience is with 2-disc sets that require no security cart (the blue T thing). Also, not all mod boards can boot all bootleg kits.
The digital I/O board has a couple of giant FPGAs on it. These are bootstrapped as an MJPEG decoder (for the backgrounds) and an MP3 decoder (for the music). This is the giant key-shaped daughterboard stacked on the main S573 board. It will obscure your PCMCIA slots, if that gives you an idea of where it's at. This is a Bemani specific item: DDR, GF, and DM use this board (possibly Dance Maniax, I don't remember).
A normality test:
+++ATH
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+++ATH
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If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
I would recommend against that...a lot. If it really is RS-485 (and not USB), bad things could happen, depending on how they pinned that port out. Likely, it just won't work, but it could start frying stuff (mostly likely just the level shifter, which you don't care about, but anyway...). It certainly won't do anything functional.Potter wrote:hook up a keybaord or usbcard and see what hapens.
A normality test:
+++ATH
If you are no longer connected to the internet, you need to apply more wax to your modem: it'll make it go faster.
If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
+++ATH
If you are no longer connected to the internet, you need to apply more wax to your modem: it'll make it go faster.
If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
Yeehaw, triple post:
A couple other things. If you have a 3rd Korean and it's running extreme, it is definately NOT legit (Especially if your security cart is the old 3rd mix with a sticker on it), just a kit that was meant to look somewhat legit. I would not be surprised if the S573 already has a (possibly incompatible with your 5th mix) mod board installed.
If you do have a legit kit (and you don't) or a bootleg that is picky about security carts (possibly) and you install 5th mix, it could write to the security cart and make it not play nicely with anything legit. I'd advise removing it to play 5th if possible, especially during install.
A couple other things. If you have a 3rd Korean and it's running extreme, it is definately NOT legit (Especially if your security cart is the old 3rd mix with a sticker on it), just a kit that was meant to look somewhat legit. I would not be surprised if the S573 already has a (possibly incompatible with your 5th mix) mod board installed.
If you do have a legit kit (and you don't) or a bootleg that is picky about security carts (possibly) and you install 5th mix, it could write to the security cart and make it not play nicely with anything legit. I'd advise removing it to play 5th if possible, especially during install.
A normality test:
+++ATH
If you are no longer connected to the internet, you need to apply more wax to your modem: it'll make it go faster.
If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
+++ATH
If you are no longer connected to the internet, you need to apply more wax to your modem: it'll make it go faster.
If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
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!A2DLTGvAOw
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MonMotha wrote:The "USB" port is for memory card slots. If you don't have slots, nothing will be plugged into this port. Also this port is not (as far as I can tell) actually USB: it is RS-485. Both the line driver on the S573 board as well as the corresponding one on the memory card board (which is really overblown, but that's another topic) are RS-485. This is electrically similar to USB, but not identical. I'm guessing the link level protocol inherent in USB is also missing, though I have not verified this.
The bypass chip has two or three major components. The most obvious is a UV erase (possibly flash, but all that I have seen are UV erase) EPROM. This contains the data that is on the old stock Konami ROM. I haven't done a comparison, but I suspect the contents are identical. The second component is a microcontroller, usually a PIC. This intercepts signals on the system address and data bus to fake out the security checks - a function similar to a Playstation mod chip (the S573 is actually basically just a developer playstation, though the security procedures are completely different from a production PSX). The third chip is usually a programmable logic device, presumably for address decoding.
Installation is simple: remove the stock ROM (it is socketed). A small screwdriver can be used. Simply pry one end (gently) until it lifts, then do the other side. Repeat until the chip is out. The mod board then plugs into the vacant socket. You will, of course, need to remove the top cover of the S573 to do this. The chip you're looking for is right next to the "backpack" RTC NVSRAM. It is a classic PDIP through-hold component and says "Konami" on it (what a surprise).
Some bootleg kits require a security cart of some form (obviously not a real one) to be installed, while others do not. My only experience is with 2-disc sets that require no security cart (the blue T thing). Also, not all mod boards can boot all bootleg kits.
The digital I/O board has a couple of giant FPGAs on it. These are bootstrapped as an MJPEG decoder (for the backgrounds) and an MP3 decoder (for the music). This is the giant key-shaped daughterboard stacked on the main S573 board. It will obscure your PCMCIA slots, if that gives you an idea of where it's at. This is a Bemani specific item: DDR, GF, and DM use this board (possibly Dance Maniax, I don't remember).
The problem with this memory card thing is that when I took apart a machine with slots (I've only gotten inside one with slots), there were wires running everywhere and no port. It's possible this was just tacked on by some guy without an official slot kit by soldering wires where they would go (a wiring example was posted years ago on AIJ, it's possible information was obtained there. I think Taren was involved). However, card slots are only valid for use on Japanese machines, not Asian, AFAIK. Our 573 (and machine) were Korean. Not that it matters, rather a moot point.
As for chipping the 573, the cover was removed (9 screws) and the digital IO board wasn't where I expected. I've taken apart several DDR machines in my time and this 573 is TOTALLY different than the others. Most of the other machines I have dismantled has vertical drives. A few have had horizontal drives but their 573s weren't like this. I'm not really sure why any of this would matter, however. The problem is that I don't want to gut the 573 to find the IO board. I don't have much choice I suspect.
The chip we have was in the machine long ago. We started with 3rd Asian and it was upgraded to a bootleg 2disc CDR 5th mix. For some reason when we got a legit Extreme the chip was switched again. I know the kit works, it's just a matter of finding the board.
DanceManiax uses SystemH, and is apparently quite different than the insides of a 573. I took apart Mandymoo's machine to obtain this information. I only did it once and I didn't take notes of anything spectacular.
The Ex kit is legit. We have a serial numbered marquee, a pressed disc (could be a HK silver though) and all original Japanese documentation. It's a legit kit; as legit as others I have seen. The security cart has no screws, so was possibly opened and just the board replaced (for some reason, possibly the place this came from gave us only the board and no case). The PCB has a Konami logo on it so the cart is (apparently) legit as well.
We attempted to install with the cart removed last night, after having given up trying to find the IO board, just for kicks.
I think tomorrow (today technically) I'll stop back by and fix the other sensors and possibly the left marquee speaker (which is probably just not hooked up, need to check on that).
I'll probably post my results, but if you have additional comments let me know.
If you have a chip in your machine, it is not legit. If you have a Korean machine running JP software, it is not legit. DDR machines have a region code on them, to prevent just such a thing. There are VERY FEW legit Extremes in the USA (though they're becoming more popular now that machines upgraded in Japan are being imported). If your marquee is an insert, then I do not believe it is legit. All the Extremes I saw in Japan were (actually really cool looking) full plastic fronts. Many of the bootleg marquees I've seen will have a serial number "sticker" on them that is actually just there because the whole thing was scanned or photocopied from a real one - serial number sticker and all. The "sticker" is actually not a separate piece of material.
As far as I know (I've been inside a Korean and JP DDR machine) the system units are identical, right down to the digital IO board - only software and cabinet layout separates the two. Korean machines do have their system unit mounted horizontally, but it is identical (hardware wise) to a JP machine.
If you have some pictures of the inside of your system unit, I'd love to see them. All that I have seen (a total of three machines: two JP and one Korean) have been identical.
You should not have to mess with the I/O board to do a bootleg upgrade. The only thing that has to be replaced is the boot ROM (you may have heard it called the "BIOS" but this is a bit of a misnomer). Depending on bootleg style, modification of the DIP switches (to change boot device) or some wacky deal with the blue security cart (outside the system unit) may also be required.
Apparently, Extreme changed the copy protection around a bit (to be "unhackable"...sure), and early bootlegs needed a different mod board. Later bootlegs could use the same mod board as the older mixes.
The whole card slots only on Japanese machines thing is simply due to the fact that they apparently didn't sell Korean/Asian machines with card slots. Barring any region checks (which I'd think would be overridden on a modded unit), they should work just fine assuming the software (any Japanese mix after 2nd Link) supports it.
I'm not sure what you mean about having card slots modded in by soldering things on, but that seems rather silly and pointless. The hardware on the memory card slots is far from trivial (it's actually got a processor that is the same core as the S573 itself!), and if you have that board, you can just plug it in. Only manual splicing that may be required would be for power.
As far as I know (I've been inside a Korean and JP DDR machine) the system units are identical, right down to the digital IO board - only software and cabinet layout separates the two. Korean machines do have their system unit mounted horizontally, but it is identical (hardware wise) to a JP machine.
If you have some pictures of the inside of your system unit, I'd love to see them. All that I have seen (a total of three machines: two JP and one Korean) have been identical.
You should not have to mess with the I/O board to do a bootleg upgrade. The only thing that has to be replaced is the boot ROM (you may have heard it called the "BIOS" but this is a bit of a misnomer). Depending on bootleg style, modification of the DIP switches (to change boot device) or some wacky deal with the blue security cart (outside the system unit) may also be required.
Apparently, Extreme changed the copy protection around a bit (to be "unhackable"...sure), and early bootlegs needed a different mod board. Later bootlegs could use the same mod board as the older mixes.
The whole card slots only on Japanese machines thing is simply due to the fact that they apparently didn't sell Korean/Asian machines with card slots. Barring any region checks (which I'd think would be overridden on a modded unit), they should work just fine assuming the software (any Japanese mix after 2nd Link) supports it.
I'm not sure what you mean about having card slots modded in by soldering things on, but that seems rather silly and pointless. The hardware on the memory card slots is far from trivial (it's actually got a processor that is the same core as the S573 itself!), and if you have that board, you can just plug it in. Only manual splicing that may be required would be for power.
A normality test:
+++ATH
If you are no longer connected to the internet, you need to apply more wax to your modem: it'll make it go faster.
If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
+++ATH
If you are no longer connected to the internet, you need to apply more wax to your modem: it'll make it go faster.
If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
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!A2DLTGvAOw
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I'm not really sure what the deal is with this machine. I'll get some pics though.
The machine may be chipped, but the marquee is not photocopied, it's plastic. The serial number sticker is somewhat holographic, metalic looking. It's raised above the rest of the marquee, so it's really on there.
The disc is pressed, but as I said, may be a HK silver.
So it's possible it's SLIGHTLY bootleg, but most of it is legit, at least as far as I can tell.
The memory card slot wiring may have been due to some damage, I'm not sure. I'll ask around to see if anyone that was on AIJ back then would remember and possibly have the pics.
The machine may be chipped, but the marquee is not photocopied, it's plastic. The serial number sticker is somewhat holographic, metalic looking. It's raised above the rest of the marquee, so it's really on there.
The disc is pressed, but as I said, may be a HK silver.
So it's possible it's SLIGHTLY bootleg, but most of it is legit, at least as far as I can tell.
The memory card slot wiring may have been due to some damage, I'm not sure. I'll ask around to see if anyone that was on AIJ back then would remember and possibly have the pics.