Machine Question

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Shadowolf93
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Machine Question

Post by Shadowolf93 » Thu May 05, 2016 1:14 pm

Hello Everyone,
Here is my situation, A local arcade has a Disney’s rave machine that is in working order, except several of the pads arrows do not work (bad sensors) and the arcade does not want to fight trying to take the brackets off the arrows as most of the screws are stripped, so they are parting out the machine. They have a buyer for just about everything except for the complete PCB (enclosed in the metal container, has everything plugged in, security cart, CD ROM with CD, Flash Card in slot 2, ect ..) in which it has been tested and works with no issues.

So my question is, could I disconnect everything external from the PCB in my extreme machine, slide it out, then slide in the Disney’s rave complete PCB, and connect everything to it, then power on the machine and it should simply boot to disneys rave, since the security cart would be in the original pcb with the same serial number and would be still installed on the same flash card it was, basically everything would match up.

The arcade technician told me, the DDR machine installs on the Slot 2 flash card drive, and the security cart verifies the PCB’s serial number, thus all I need to do is simply remove the external connectors from the current PCB housing in my machine, slide it out and slide in the Disney’s rave and connect everything to its housing, then power on the machine and it would boot disneys rave. I am not sure this would work, so I figured I’d ask as they want $1200 for the complete PCB which I am fine paying if it would work that way, but to me, it seems too easy for it to work like that, and I see lots of threads saying you cannot downgrade, but in this case the entire PCB would be removed and replaced so technically shouldn’t it work as I am not trying to install disneys rave on my current PCB, I am simply replacing it with a PCB that has it installed.

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Re: Machine Question

Post by Merk » Thu May 05, 2016 1:53 pm

Whoa whoa whoa $1,200 for a 573 (the DDR PCB) is wayyyyyyy too much.

But putting that aside, yes, it is that easy. You can remove the PCB from any cabinet, put it into another cabinet, connect all the inputs (JAMMA, pad sensors, etc) and it will boot just fine. People buy/sell DDR PCBs all the time so as you can imagine PCBs will work in any machine that's in working condition.
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Re: Machine Question

Post by Merk » Thu May 05, 2016 1:56 pm

Also, if you already have a PCB for your cabinet and you're running Extreme, it would make more sense to just buy the Disney Rave security cart and the install/play discs since there's no reason to buy a whole other PCB. Assuming you have the Extreme security cart and install/play discs then you can go back and forth between each mix freely.
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Re: Machine Question

Post by Riot » Thu May 05, 2016 4:14 pm

I will sell my DDR Extreme 573 for a steal - $1100!
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Re: Machine Question

Post by Shadowolf93 » Thu May 05, 2016 6:28 pm

Merk wrote:Also, if you already have a PCB for your cabinet and you're running Extreme, it would make more sense to just buy the Disney Rave security cart and the install/play discs since there's no reason to buy a whole other PCB. Assuming you have the Extreme security cart and install/play discs then you can go back and forth between each mix freely.
Yeah, I have been looking around, but haven't seen any Disney Rave security carts on the market or the mix for that matter, the only other issue is I bought my machine from an arcade, it does appear to have a legit extreme, the machine is a jap built machine, but I am not sure if extreme's play cd is also the install cd as well, as I have been told all mixes that are legit have a play CD and an install CD.

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Re: Machine Question

Post by MonMotha » Thu May 05, 2016 8:44 pm

$1200 for a legit Disney's Rave may not be out of the question if you really want it as a collectable. I do believe that it's possible to find hacked versions that don't care about the security if you just want to play it. It's so old at this point that I highly doubt anybody cares, especially in a home use environment. If you just want to play Disney's Rave, there are certainly cheaper ways to do it, though. A DDR System 573 unit is generally worth a few hundred dollars collectable value aside (the vast majority of them are bootlegs at this point).

But yes, you can do what you describe. As long as you have an early era (prior to Supernova) Japanese or Korean cabinet, the System 573 is fully transplantable as all the wiring and connectors are the same. The security only cares that the serial number on the IO board inside of it matches what's on the security cart, so if you get a whole system unit including a cart that matches what's installed, the system has no idea that you've swapped it into a different cabinet.

Be aware that legit Extremes are extraordinarily rare in the USA. It's doubtful you have a legit one, though it's not out of the question.
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Re: Machine Question

Post by Shadowolf93 » Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Alright,
So I figured everything would be good and ordered it (Talked the guy down to $400), so now I am going to reach out to you pro's and get opinions (Chances are I will fight to get a refund unless you guys can help me to get things working).

1.) When I swapped the PCB'S, I noticed the Disney's Rave one had different connectors (Still has JAMMA), so I figured it wouldn't be an issue and it booted up ... but both sides of the PAD (On the Disney Rave) registered the TOP and RIGHT arrow as being held down (Thinking they are short closed, See below). The Left and bottom registered fine (See Below Picture), in the 1 in a million chance would I somehow be able to fix this? I just figured the JAMMA would be the same in both PCB's, and it appears to be but I could be wrong and perhaps I need some sort of adapter to make it work right. (Also note, The pad lights do NOT come on when the button is pressed on the Disney rave PCB even on the working arrows)

Image of the PCB'S.
ImageImage

Image of the error on non-error (First Disney's Rave which shows the security card out (for seller as proof he sold me bootleg) and up / right arrows held down), Second is DDR 8th which is using the same pad with no issues (They work when stepped on)
ImageImage

2.) This got me thinking something was wrong, So I checked and noticed it has no Flash card and still booted, so for the hell of it, I removed the Disney's Rave Security cart and guess what? It booted (Yeah at this point I am annoyed).

3.) I realized this is a bootleg... Good news is Ebay protects against this crap.

However, the CD appears to be legit ... and if somehow I could get the pad to work correctly I wouldn't really mind, but in the current state, the game is unplayable as only two arrows on each side work. Perhaps I need an adapter or something I don't know, it just really sucks and I'm very annoyed at this entire thing.

Any help is appreciated.

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Re: Machine Question

Post by MonMotha » Thu May 12, 2016 1:00 am

You'll get exactly that behavior with those two arrows on the pads always registering if you don't hook up the extra connectors. They control the lights on the pads, but they also handle the single-sensor IO test mode, and the default mode if nothing's hooked up ends up being UP and RIGHT held down.

That System 573 unit isn't even a DDR unit. It's a DanceManiaX unit which is why the connectors don't match up. The serial number sticker on top probably has 874 in it at the beginning, which is DMX. Late era System 573 DDR (3rd mix and newer) would be 887. Good news is that you can make it work. I think you have all the connectors you need that you can't get easily. You'll just have to do a little bit of messing with the wiring inside the 573.

Disney's Rave doesn't have a flash card, I don't think. Given that this is clearly an "assembled" bootleg, Disney's Rave was probably chosen for precisely that reason. The flash card was probably parted out and sold separately as they can be sold by themselves for a hundred dollars or more, often.
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Re: Machine Question

Post by Shadowolf93 » Thu May 12, 2016 8:26 am

Any idea what I would need to do to get it to register correctly or what modifications need to be made?

The three connectors on the left of the apparent DanceManiaX unit are the same as DDR, Which I actually got those 3 hooked up correctly as the PAD lights come on, however the smaller plug on the top right, is a 5 pin, the one on the DDR board is a 6 pin so it won't fit or work, as for the other two connectors I am not sure what they are for, but I am assuming they need hooked up and that would explain why it's not working.

From what I can tell, is the ones that match the DDR board (Red, Orange and White) control the pad lights (They are labeled on the connector as 1P (White) 2P (Orange) and the third is labeled 3 (Red connector), so would I need some sort of adapter to get the smaller white one hooked up and running correctly where it registers right?

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Re: Machine Question

Post by Ho » Thu May 12, 2016 8:40 am

MonMotha, as a simple solution, wouldn't he be able to simply swap that entire connector plate from his DDR 573 with the new one he just got?

It wouldn't be the most elegant solution, but it wouldn't involve buying anything he doesn't already have and would allow him to at least test the unit he just received.

Or is the I/O board in DMX slightly different from DDR? I know DMX was "special" in some way, but I don't recall the details.

However, if that plan would work, all you'd need to do was: Open the lid, disconnect the connectors from that plate going to the I/O board, and then install the connector plate from his existing 573 unit in its place. The plate itself even has screws so you can remove it and put a different one in, making the 573 units relatively modular and adaptable to various games.
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Re: Machine Question

Post by Shadowolf93 » Thu May 12, 2016 11:10 am

Ho wrote:MonMotha, as a simple solution, wouldn't he be able to simply swap that entire connector plate from his DDR 573 with the new one he just got?

It wouldn't be the most elegant solution, but it wouldn't involve buying anything he doesn't already have and would allow him to at least test the unit he just received.

Or is the I/O board in DMX slightly different from DDR? I know DMX was "special" in some way, but I don't recall the details.

However, if that plan would work, all you'd need to do was: Open the lid, disconnect the connectors from that plate going to the I/O board, and then install the connector plate from his existing 573 unit in its place. The plate itself even has screws so you can remove it and put a different one in, making the 573 units relatively modular and adaptable to various games.
I would be very happy if that works, I actually have 2 ddr machines, so I pulled the PCB from the spare machine last night as I planned to mount the Disney Rave board on the wooden board from the second machine that way it would be easy to swap between 8th and disney rave, if this suggestion works, I owe you guys big time.

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Re: Machine Question

Post by MonMotha » Fri May 13, 2016 1:59 am

Actually yes, you should be able to just swap the IO connector plate from the DDR unit over to the DMX unit. There is a small difference between the two, but it's on the 573 mainboard, and it doesn't matter for DDR (it matters if you're trying to transplant between Guitar Freaks and DMX only).

While some of the exterior connectors between DDR and DMX are the same, I seem to recall that they're pinned out differently and won't necessarily be compatible. You'll also be missing the 6 pin (only 2 wires) connector that DDR uses for its bass lights, but of course that's entirely cosmetic (but super super important!).

It should be obvious where the inside connectors go, but post pictures if you have questions. Generally speaking, the connectors will only fit in the place they're supposed to go with the exception of the EXT-OUT header on the mainboard which is not used for DDR (but is for DMX).
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Re: Machine Question

Post by Ho » Fri May 13, 2016 10:15 am

If you look (go ahead and take a picture) at how the I/O plate is connected inside your DDR unit, just connect it the same way in the DMX one. Also, take a picture of the DMX one before you disconnect as a reference in case you ever need to put it back.

But MonMotha is right, Konami was generally pretty nice about making this hard to screw up. They'll include extra, unused pins on connectors just to make them different so it's obvious which goes where. And they're usually keyed so you can't get them backwards either. There are exceptions, of course, but they do a hell of a lot better than some other games we've worked on.
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Re: Machine Question

Post by Shadowolf93 » Sat May 14, 2016 5:46 pm

Thanks for the information,
I was able to swap I/O and everything worked, Then I gave it some though and swapped out the DISK from the Disney Rave with the working DDR 8th machine and it booted. This was very annoying because apparently all I had to do was swap out the disk, as I noticed the Disney Rave CD I have (Which is funny because it says BETSON DANCE DANCE REVOLUTION DISNEY RAVE) must have something changed on the CD (Bootleg I guess) that tells it not to look for a flash drive or security cart, as my actual legit 8th mix booted with it and loaded disney's rave, so I swapped the 8th security cart and flash cards to the modified disney's rave board and it wouldn't boot due to the boards serial, so apparently the Disney Rave CD I got has some kind of bootleg within the game.dat file that skips the security check and Flash card check (Which really sucks because all the settings are reverted to default when you restart the machine).

I did further research and apparently the 8th mix I have is actually rare because it's a legit copy of extreme (When I was looking to buy, I was after a machine that had a memory card reader so that meant a jap cabnet and as luck would have it, the seller I bought it from had to import it from Japan so I guess that is why it's actually legit, as my second DDR machine which is also an 8th mix has a BETSON 8TH mix but still does require the flash and security cart so I am not sure if it was legit or not as I bought it in the US).

Either way, I will probably return the Disney's Rave as it sucks that the game won't save anything as it bypasses the flash and security cart (It saves but the game settings revert to factory default upon powering off and back on) and I am not a huge fan of bootlegs.

This is the Disney's rave board. I noticed #2 and #7 didn't have anything going to them on the DDR I/O (Note there is also another connector above #3 on both boards, I labeled it 3A just forgot to put it on the picture).
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This is the 8th mix DDR I/O before I swapped it out, Mapped and labeled each wire so I know where to put it in.
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Re: Machine Question

Post by MonMotha » Sun May 15, 2016 1:51 am

I don't think Betson ever even distributed Disney's Rave. The legit disc certainly wouldn't say that on it since it would be an import. Also, IIRC it's "Dancing Stage Featuring Disney's Rave". There was a US release titled "Dance Dance Revolution Disney Mix" (I think), but it was console only as I recall. Your boot ROM on the Disney's Rave board is also not an original. Now, it may be a copy of the original mask ROM, but normally that's another indication of a bootleg.

What I'm amused at is that it doesn't even have to install to the onboard flash to run. Apparently the whole program fits in RAM. I can't say I'm totally surprised. It's a rather small game compared to many of the other titles.

It's normal for Disney's Rave to not have a flash card. It didn't use one.

Your Extreme might also be a bootleg, though it does have an original boot ROM on the board (there are bootlegs that work with this). Extreme definitely needs to be installed onto the onboard ROM before it can run, so the fact that it didn't immediately boot on your Disney's Rave board is not surprising either. Depending on the bootleg, the process to install it varies. If you do actually have a legit one, it will indeed be keyed to the IO board in your Extreme system. Note that it keys to the IO board, not the main board, as the main board does not have a unique electronic serial number whereas the IO board does.
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