573 question

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Merk
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573 question

Post by Merk » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:49 am

Scenario:

Chad and I are fixing up his DDR machine at DBH and I'd like to take the 573 that we gutted out of his USA cabinet and turn it into a DDR Superdisc jubilation station where I can install any given mix at any given time.

Chad is concerned that turning the 573 into a DDR Superdisc jubilation station will prevent the 573 from ever going back to its original DDR USA state. He values the sanctity of the 573 since it was the original DDR machine that spawned this community and would like to be able to someday sell it in it's original form as a DDR USA 573.

We have all the original parts that came with the 573 when we got it less than a year ago including the blue security chip thingy and the game disc.


The question is, would installing a new mix on the 573 prevent us from reverting back to DDR USA? I am convinced that 573s are meant to swappable and people are able to switch between mixes without issue all the time. Chad is under the impression that installing a new mix destroys the flash memory or something.
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Re: 573 question

Post by Fluffyumpkins » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:25 pm

My motivations aren't secret. Arcades are dying slowly, and permanently hacking things such that it destroys their intended design takes away from that remaining collective. Especially when there's a really easy workaround for playing songs called Stepmania and it already works.

If you want to buy your own USA 573, you can do whatever you want to it.
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Re: 573 question

Post by Ho » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:58 pm

I salute Chad's attitude toward preservation. Bravo!
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Re: 573 question

Post by Merk » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:52 pm

So does installing a DDR Superdisc brick a 573?



Better yet, I have a billion Drummania 573s, would it be possible for Brandon to re-wire the break-out pins in the 573 to match those of DDR?
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Re: 573 question

Post by Ho » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:35 pm

Installing bootlegs shouldn't brick a 573. It just may prevent you from returning the 573 to an "official" state. I can certainly understand how this would be a deal breaker for a preservationist. I can also understand not being or not wanting to be a preservationist. Personally, I've gone both ways, but I generally try to keep things as official/factory as I can whenever possible. Or, if I do make modifications, I try to keep them reversible.
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Re: 573 question

Post by Merk » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:56 pm

Does installing a new mix really leave a permanent mark on a 573? Can installing a piece of software render a piece of hardware unusable or permanently changed?
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Re: 573 question

Post by MonMotha » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:38 pm

Some 573 bootlegs are known to permanently fry any security cart that may be present. Obviously this is irreversible. You can work around it by making sure you never have a cart you care about present while installing or running the bootleg.

As to getting something into a "fully legit" state, the only way I know of to do it is to forcibly install an older (bootleg) version and then "upgrade" it. The only thing USA would upgrade would be US DDR 1.5. I'm not sure that there's a bootleg for this to install. You MAY be able to make a "force installer" for otherwise unpatched USA and have it pick up the security cart upon reboot into the game (keeping in mind that having it installed during the forced install may fry it).

It's certainly somewhat risky. If you don't care about it ever being legit again, there are hacks for USA at this point, I think, but you'd be missing your matching serial numbers. Given the rarity of legit DDR USA systems, I'd be inclined to just buy an already blasted system to use for hackery.
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Re: 573 question

Post by Merk » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:06 am

Welp, in order to install the Superdisc you need to have the security cart removed so I doubt there's any risk of blowing it up.


Can't you just re-install USA from the disc? Do you actually have to upgrade from an older mix? How do people with legit discs swap between mixes? I thought it was just a matter of inserting the correct disc and security cart and then flipping a DIP switch.
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Re: 573 question

Post by Fluffyumpkins » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:16 am

Feel free to continue discussion, but I'm in favor of keeping it as is.
Given the rarity of legit DDR USA systems, I'd be inclined to just buy an already blasted system to use for hackery.
If we're going to hack up anything, why not work on the other 573? Merk took some pictures that demonstrate the issue that we should probably share.
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Re: 573 question

Post by Merk » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:20 am

Comparison of 573s blatantly stolen from Sows:

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The one in the middle is Drummania, the one on the right is DDR. You can fit one pad input (the white upper left one in the DDR 573) into Drummania but you can't fit the other one in so you basically can only use one pad if at all (I'm guessing the wires for drum inputs don't match up at all with DDR arrows). Logically there is no difference between 573s, just wires and pin outs. I'm guessing you'd need to solder some wires and it's probably a helluva pain in the ass.
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Re: 573 question

Post by Ho » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:35 am

Merk wrote:Can't you just re-install USA from the disc? Do you actually have to upgrade from an older mix? How do people with legit discs swap between mixes? I thought it was just a matter of inserting the correct disc and security cart and then flipping a DIP switch.
No. The legit discs are upgraders only. The initial install is done at the factory and then each subsequent mix is installed as an upgrade from there. If you put a disc from an older mix in, it does not install. So, for instance, if you had 3rd Mix installed and put the 4th Mix disc in, 4th Mix would install. But if you then put the 3rd Mix disc back in, you'd get an error, not an installation.
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Re: 573 question

Post by Merk » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:37 am

Whoa whoa whoa, so people with legit equipment can't actually swap between newer and older mixes?

I'm guessing you don't use legitimate hardware then, Brian?
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Re: 573 question

Post by Fluffyumpkins » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:23 pm

Brian and I talked over lunch. We *might* have a solution depending on if my 573 I/O is analog or digital and yours matches.
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Re: 573 question

Post by Ho » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:26 pm

Merk wrote:Whoa whoa whoa, so people with legit equipment can't actually swap between newer and older mixes?

I'm guessing you don't use legitimate hardware then, Brian?
It has nothing to do with whether the hardware is legit. The issue is whether you can restore legit software after using bootleg software. The hardware itself generally remains unaltered except maybe for a security bypass module which is generally reversible. And these days, you don't even need that.
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Re: 573 question

Post by Merk » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:46 pm

So people with legit equipment can't actually swap between newer and older mixes?
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