Arcade operators and meeting player expectations

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elcuebee
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Post by elcuebee » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:30 pm

SoDeepPolaris wrote:Source this claim of "design." I want scientific studies and observations, not any anecdotes.

P.S. Drummania has a bass pedal.
Uh, common knowledge/common sense? Hell, Wikipedia has an article for hand-eye coordination but none for foot-eye.

What activities require foot-eye coordination to live in daily life? Name more than two, (the two being walking/going up stairs etc. and driving)

What activities require hand-eye coordination to live in daily life? Tons.

P.S. Drummania has an auto-bass mode. I mentioned it multiple times in the previous posts and how casual people don't use it, because of auto-bass mode. Thanks for not reading :)

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Post by danc1005 » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:35 pm

liquidblue aka DBV wrote:[What activities require foot-eye coordination to live in daily life? Name more than two, (the two being walking/going up stairs etc. and driving)

What activities require hand-eye coordination to live in daily life? Tons.
LMAO.
I guess not like ESSENTIALLY EVERY MOVEMENT WE MAKE and GOING ANYWHERE involves foot-eye coordination.

I love how you always support a certain viewpoint and distort facts to support it.
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elcuebee
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Post by elcuebee » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:57 pm

danc1005 wrote:
liquidblue aka DBV wrote:[What activities require foot-eye coordination to live in daily life? Name more than two, (the two being walking/going up stairs etc. and driving)

What activities require hand-eye coordination to live in daily life? Tons.
LMAO.
I guess not like ESSENTIALLY EVERY MOVEMENT WE MAKE and GOING ANYWHERE involves foot-eye coordination.

I love how you always support a certain viewpoint and distort facts to support it.
I love how you always ignore my post and don't even read it at all.

I just said, name off more than two things (driving and walking) that require foot-eye coordination. Good job reading the post, because you just said exactly what I did.

Here's a SMALL list of things that you can't do with your feet that you have to do with your hands; (some of these are only in modern times, but i've highlighted the essential ones from caveman times)

-making food (cooking, making a meal etc.)
-killing animals (for food)
-feeding yourself (using your hands to scoop/grab/put food into mouth)
-typing on a computer
-writing (papers, checks, notes, etc.)
-doing bookwork
-reading a book
-picking up objects (weapons, tools, etc.)
-carrying objects (food, animals, injured humans, tools)
-using a steering wheel
-using a stapler
-pushing objects (rocks, objects out of way)
-using a vaccum
-picking yourself up off the ground (yes, some of us can get up from lying down with legs only, but it's not too common)
-opening things (boxes, doors, cabinets, bags, etc.)
-using utensils (cutting etc.)
-putting things on your body (shampoo, soap, etc.)
-cutting your hair
-shaving your face/body
-putting deodorant on
-brain surgery (or hell any surgery of any kind)
-architectural planning
-building things (huts, houses, buildings, shelter)
-playing musical instruments (besides drum bass pedal and piano pedals)
-wiring up computers
-sautering computer chips
-sign language
-screwing in a lightbulb
-grabbing stuff (drinks, objects, mouse, tv remote, tools, keys etc.)
-turning things (keys into a car's ignition, keys in a door, a doorknob, etc.)
-pressing buttons (radio in a car, doorbell, tv remote, etc.)

Even if you take out all of the stuff that didn't exist in caveman times, a LOT of those are essentials for living (making food, feeding yourself, carrying tools, building shelter, killing food with weapons, etc.)

I mean, the whole fucking reason that the human race was able to survive back then against animals with claws and girth and speed was *because of being able to use tools that you could SHAPE and GRAB with your HANDS*.

To say that hand-eye coordination is something that isn't as natural as foot-eye coordination in human beings is hilarious; every mammal can walk and run, but only humans can operate with our hands as we can, only humans use as many things with our hands as we do, and if you count in modern time usage of things we do with our hands, that number multiplies into thousands of small and large uses.

I mean, think about it, to say that foot-eye coordination usage in humans even remotely approaches the hand-eye coordination usage in humans is hilarious.

P.S. They have prosthetic legs, they have wheelchairs. Both of these are good enough to get done what needs to be done (movement). Show me a cheap, prosthetic arm that can get done even 10% of that list above EFFECTIVELY (dropping your food 20 times isn't effective). You won't be able to find one for public use, because hands are used in MANY more ways than feet will ever be.

EDIT: I just realized i'm actually trying to prove that hands are more complex and used in more ways than feet are. I shouldn't even have to prove this. I'm done with this topic, gotta go prepare for tokyo tomorrow, gg guys

good luck to the arcade operator

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Post by UnLiMiTeDmAxX » Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:19 pm

DBV give it up. Fluffy and some others have given the specifics on what Player Two asked to the tee.

I don't remember who said it without reading the whole thread again, but our dedicab pretty much made it's money back and was profiting fairly fast. It's just obvious having a decent crowd of people that enjoy one particular game will get you on your way to profit in no time. Any other Bemani besides DDR will not. That's why our arcade sold IIDX. There were only like 3 people who would actually play.
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Post by Jeff Jeff Revolution » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:02 pm

liquidblue aka DBV wrote:Here's a SMALL list of things that you can't do with your feet that you have to do with your hands; (some of these are only in modern times, but i've highlighted the essential ones from caveman times)

-killing animals (for food)
You'd be surprised what you could do with limber toes.
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Post by Merk » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:32 pm

This issue has been beaten to death already, let's answer the OP!

Guitar Freaks, given the popularity of Guitar Hero, would actually stand a chance of doing well in an arcade. But it's risky since it's simply not Guitar Hero. DDR is your safest bet if you want a music game, Pump It Up won't attract much attention from the casual gamer because, like the case with Guitar Freaks and Guitar Hero, it's simply not DDR.

All customers appreciate arcade management that gets involved with their experience, especially your frequent customers. It definitely pays off to be attentive to your customers, the owner of my local arcade does a great job with this.

If you're going to be a stand-alone arcade I'd be extremely wary of your location. Stand-alone arcades generally do not make a large profit in Indiana, the exception being if your business is in an already high-traffic location (like the Gameworks in the Circle Center mall in Indianapolis). If you could attach your arcade to something else, for example a go-Kart track, miniature golf course, restaurant, etc. then you'd stand a much better chance in Indiana. I'm not sure how the business climate for arcades is like in Ohio, but from what I've seen in Indiana the best places usually offer more than just an arcade.

But of course you risk much more when you have to pay the rent for all that land your business will take up, especially if it's on prime real estate. Such is the risk vs reward nature of capitalism! Definitely establish yourself before buying expensive niche games, BeatmaniaIIDX did not do well even in what many consider the best arcade in this state for music game players. Drummania would be a better investment if you wanted to branch out into something other than the usual ol' DDR for reasons already beaten to death in this thread.

And sadly, 2D fighters don't do well in Indiana. The community is already small (mostly centered in Nothern Indiana) and most people play at home anyway-- these games would be a bad investment.

Hope this helps and good luck to you! Once your location is set up I'm positive a lot of people from here will try out your machine to see if it's up to par. We would like it a lot if more arcade owners like you posted on this site and got involved with the community.
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Post by SoDeepPolaris » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:39 pm

liquidblue aka DBV wrote:every mammal can walk and run, but only humans can operate with our hands as we can,
What about whales? Or dolphins? A walking dolphin would be the end of our race, a running dolphin would be the end of the world.

Actually, great apes, most old world monkeys (for example, Colobus monkeys being an exception), and some new world monkeys have prehensile/opposable thumbs.

Chimpanzees use tools, the difference being that we as humans adapt our environment to our needs these days, whereas other primates don't necessarily do this.

And how the hell did we get from helping an investor with some advice on what players want to a freaking squabble on hand-eye coordination?
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Post by PlayerTwo » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:45 pm

Hey, all.

I appreciate the community taking the time to offer suggestions and feedback. I hadn't expected quite the response received (wow) but there's plenty of great information to glean from here. I say, keep it coming. Good/bad/otherwise, it's the only way we'll know how to make your experience a positive one.

We'll do our best to factor in the practical considerations put forth, here. Some, admittedly, are beyond our control but we'll be happy to take your requests and concerns to the location, itself, and do our best to represent your interests. Expect that to continue at other new locations where we're getting ready to potentially place more Bemani-type games. If you find yourself in one of our locations, playing one of our games and feel it isn't meeting your expectations, call the number on the machine and let us know how we can address it.

v/r,
Kris

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Post by PlayerTwo » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:53 pm

I neglected to answer White Dragon's question re: PIU mix. We genuinely don't know as it's non-working, at the moment. Just as soon as we get it fired up, I'll be happy to let you know. No doubt I'll have questions about that machine and its devoted players as well as Guitar Freaks once it's further along in its refurb process.

v/r,
Kris

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Post by WhiteDragon » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:16 pm

Looking forward to finding out what mix the PIU is. As far as suggestions for PIU go, the one thing I'd like to ask is that you please make sure the bars on the machine are well attached and don't move at all. This is absolutely imperative sometimes durring freestyles. Unfortunately, Pump bars are notorious for loosing their stability over time. However, they can generally be kept stable with a little basic maintenance from time to time.

Btw, are you able to give us any word on where abouts in Indiana this place is going to be?
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Post by Fluffyumpkins » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:59 am

Edit: Don't need to argue. I'll just say that arms don't have the same muscle mass as legs since they don't need to support balancing 100+ pounds of flesh and guts.

Every arcade needs a 25 cent Galaga/Mrs. Pacman machine. Fact.

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Post by malictus » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:32 am

Fluffyumpkins wrote:Every arcade needs a 25 cent Galaga/Mrs. Pacman machine. Fact.
YES

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Post by elcuebee » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:30 am

Fluffyumpkins wrote:Edit: Don't need to argue. I'll just say that arms don't have the same muscle mass as legs since they don't need to support balancing 100+ pounds of flesh and guts.

Every arcade needs a 25 cent Galaga/Mrs. Pacman machine. Fact.
Ok, I just thought of something today;

Try waking up tomorrow and not using your arms. See how far you get in the day in terms of getting anything done, making food, doing homework, doing your job.

Now try waking up the next day and not using your legs. You can still crawl to your desk with your arms, and do all of your work, and just push yourself around the room and pull yourself up to desks and make food, etc.

I mean, that's just fact, sorry. But yeah, it's off topic now.

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Post by lgolem » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:32 am

liquidblue aka DBV wrote:
Fluffyumpkins wrote:Edit: Don't need to argue. I'll just say that arms don't have the same muscle mass as legs since they don't need to support balancing 100+ pounds of flesh and guts.

Every arcade needs a 25 cent Galaga/Mrs. Pacman machine. Fact.
Ok, I just thought of something today;

Try waking up tomorrow and not using your arms. See how far you get in the day in terms of getting anything done, making food, doing homework, doing your job.

Now try waking up the next day and not using your legs. You can still crawl to your desk with your arms, and do all of your work, and just push yourself around the room and pull yourself up to desks and make food, etc.

I mean, that's just fact, sorry. But yeah, it's off topic now.
OMG SHUT UP, Every thread you post in gets ruined. You are the one who drove the last several pages you posted on into completely pointless tangents.

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Post by BigBadOrc » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:41 am

lgolem wrote: OMG SHUT UP, Every thread you post in gets ruined. You are the one who drove the last several pages you posted on into completely pointless tangents.
lol that's a little mean. but this argument over hands and feet is pretty much completely off topic - the original argument being whether DDR or Drummania was easier to learn and more accessible to the average person.

I used to play the piano as a kid, but that's it.. no other musical background. DDR i played once and it was immediately a lot of fun. I've played 2 different arcade drum games (not sure if it was drummania) but neither of them was worth a 2nd play. especially since there was a ddr machine nearby :)
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