Why the rating system isn't working

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Ho
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Post by Ho » Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:21 pm

God Of Rock wrote:Okay, both of you: KNOCK IT OFF.
Seconded. There is great discussion going on here. Let's not lose it.
Pheadra wrote:EDIT: Also, how do we know wether we are getting to be 'dragged' down or not?
There isn't a perfect way to do this just yet. The highest ranked posters list was recently fixed to show all users correctly. If you're on this list, you're certainly not being dragged down.

Ohterwise, you can go into your profile and click on the link to display your posts that have been rated. This will give you a snapshot of your posts that have been rated by others. The numbers are averages, so they do not necessarily represent every vote received. But you can easily see trends as to whether you're receiving more positive or negative votes. It's not exact, but just remember that it takes a big swing in one direction or another to have any effect.
Last edited by Ho on Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Grubb » Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:27 pm

See what I mean?

Stuff like that is exactly what I'm talking about.
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Post by Ho » Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:41 pm

Grubb wrote:See what I mean?

Stuff like that is exactly what I'm talking about.
Pheadra brought up an example. A specific example, yes. An example that involved you, yes. However, you were the one that turned it back into an attack in this thread.

Once again...please just let this go or take it somewhere outside of this thread and public discussion. You've been asked as much at least three times in this thread alone.
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Post by Pheadra » Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:47 pm

Gatekeeper wrote:You make some good points, but I still have concerns. What if a person wants to express an opinion that they know is very unpopular? Should they be afraid people will downvote them just because their opinion is in the minority?

I feel this squelches creativity and discussion, when a person knows their post is likely to be rated based on the number of people agreeing with it rather than its quality or relevance.

For example I posted an unpopular viewpoint on the Cheating... thread (link). I thought I did a good job of conveying my opinion clearly and politely, and yet I was downvoted because I didn't follow the groupthink. Should I be discouraged from posting messages which are contrary to the thought-trend here?

What if all my messages conveyed unpopular viewpoints but were well written and politely expressed? Would I

be in 'danger' for daring to think so differently?
I would hope that you wouldn't fear posting your opinion even if it is different from others. In a trend that I have seen, if one person unfairly rates a post others will post a good to help bring up your post, especially if you posted your opinion that was well balanced and not offensive.
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Post by CaseyDidder » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:17 pm

Even if the rating system isn't 'working' properly, its actually fun :D I've been in danger many times lol. I think Ho did something good, instead of bannign me, let ppl fight over my right to post hahaha!

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Post by Ho » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:34 pm

CaseyDidder wrote:Even if the rating system isn't 'working' properly, its actually fun :D I've been in danger many times lol. I think Ho did something good, instead of bannign me, let ppl fight over my right to post hahaha!
To an extent, that's part of the point. As part of my community-focused initiative with this new site, I want the community itself to have input on such decisions. In the past, sanctions against forum users have generally been the result of complaints to me from other users. But ultimately, the action and decision of when and what to do fell on me. This system lets the community benefit from a more collective judgement. "The people have spoken," if you will. However, I can and will still take direct action if it is ever necessary.

But not to dwell on the negative, remember that positive ratings also have an effect as well. Higher ranks can and will be attained by those who accumulate positive ratings through consistent quality posting--also as judged by the community itself.
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Post by malictus » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:41 pm

Ho wrote:Ohterwise, you can go into your profile and click on the link to display your posts that have been rated.
For some reason, I can't find this link in my profile...?

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Post by Ho » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:58 pm

I just checked and it seems to be there. "Posts by malictus that have been rated." There is usually another link "Posts rated by <username>," but you don't seem to have one of those. I assume that means you have never rated a post.
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malictus
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Post by malictus » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:21 pm

Oh I see what you mean... I was looking at the Profile Edit page, which I got to by clicking 'Profile' in the navigation menus at the top each page....

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Post by Rusty Shackleford » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:39 am

I don't give bad ratings to posts just because I dont agree with them. I give what I feel like they deserve and here lately I have been giving out some boos to people who add to the flames. And to the people who I can tell purposely created them. I feel as if we would just rate the posts and not try to "defend ourselves by random name calling and what not* the origional creator of the problem would just see that no body gives a crap and would hopefully move on to post something more productive next time.

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Post by MonMotha » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:02 am

Grubb: You have some valid points, but please refrain from the personal attacks and insults. There's definate potential here for a constructive discussion of the ratings system, and change may come as a result of it if some concrete suggestions get nailed down. However, for that to happen, things have to remain on track. If you have a personal issue with someone, please try to resolve it via private messages first. If you feel someone is being abusive and you can't resolve it between the two of you, don't hesitate to report it to Ho, myself, or any of the mods. It will be discussed and the administration will take action deemed to be appropriate.

Oh, and back on topic. One of the biggest things I can recommend to people is to not get caught up in an individual rating, even if you think it may be unjust. Only if there's a trend of unfair usage should you get concerned. In general, things seem to be averaging out to represent the general consensus of the userbase.
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Post by Grubb » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:10 am

MonMotha wrote:Grubb: You have some valid points, but please refrain from the personal attacks and insults. There's definate potential here for a constructive discussion of the ratings system, and change may come as a result of it if some concrete suggestions get nailed down. However, for that to happen, things have to remain on track. If you have a personal issue with someone, please try to resolve it via private messages first. If you feel someone is being abusive and you can't resolve it between the two of you, don't hesitate to report it to Ho, myself, or any of the mods. It will be discussed and the administration will take action deemed to be appropriate.
I have reported it. You guys don't care. The only action you guys deem nessisary is no action. Everybody on this board is allowed to be an asshole, except me. I'm tired of being chastized every fucking time I post something, and all because the real people running this boards are a bunch of inconsiderate assholes, and they know it.

If they're free to call my a pedophile and insult me because I had trouble dealing with the death of my late fiance', and then get applauded for it. Then I should have every fucking right to say exactly what I think and what I feel about anyone and everyone on this board openly and publically.
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Post by CaseyDidder » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:56 am

it is true you don't care about people abusing the system. Also, I gave grubb perfect cuz that above post was hilarious.

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Post by Ho » Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:11 am

I do care and have gone so far as to point out and/or correct the abuses I have seen. Other moderators have done the same.

I'm not sure if the "inconsiderate asshole" comment was directed at me or not. I can take that if it is. I simply have a different tolerance level--especially when compared to Grubb. I don't mean to single him out here, but if he's going to pose this publicly, I will address it. However, everything that follows is directed toward all in a general sense.

Specifically with the rating system, as I have repeated in this thread and others, it is built to deal with an amount of disagreement, randomness, and even flat out abuse with little to no overall effect. I'm not going to waste time policing every single rating that is made. However, if I do see that something is up, I will--and have--make mention of it to stop or take corrective action if necessary.

Specific to the flaming issue, as I have said on multiple, Multiple, MULTIPLE occasions...just let it go. Defense of a flame is often a flame itself. Even if it is not, it usually provokes yet another response to it and causes the cycle to continue. At this point the defense is as big a part of the overall problem, a flamewar erupts, and the topic is derailed.

It may seem like a big deal to you, but most people probably just passed right over it and/or will forget about it in about 30 seconds. Don't feel like you need to set the record straight. Anyone who is going to make a decision about you because of what someone else said about you on a message board isn't the kind of person whose opinion you should even care about.

Also, in many cases what gets interpreted as a flame is simply a misunderstanding--a fairly common occurance in a situation such as this where facial expressions, voice inflection, and non-verbals are absent. Jokes, sarcasm, and even completely undirected comments that would be completely blown off in person can seem like an attack if you choose to interpret it as one.

I have been accused of inaction. It's true. It is because I felt there was no action necessary. I want to keep this forum running smoothly. I do not want to control it. I haven't the time nor the interest to do so. I don't lock many topics and I don't ban many users. This is intentional and a result of the fact that most people here are generally well behaved. Other forums are much more restrictive. I don't like that style and I don't think most here do either.

If it gets to the point where I'm continually cleaning up messes, locking threads, and banning users, I'd rather just shut it all down than to run it that way. In the past when that has occurred, that is exactly what I've done.

If you have problems with another user, please work it out on your own. Don't make it my problem and don't make it a problem for everyone else here. Doing so makes you the inconsiderate asshole.
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Post by LikeableRodent » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:57 pm

This got derailed even worse than it did the first time.

Bah.

Guys, please move your petty drama to another medium and keep it off the boards.

-locked



[edit]
We actually had some good discussions going on in here previously, so I got rid of the last page of posts and am unlocking this. Please stay on topic this time.
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