Another Indiana Tournament

[ITGMS Mike]

So i talked to the manager at the putt-putt in anderson. he wants to throw an itg tourny. maybe a ddr tourny too im not sure. probably 10 entry fee. and i want as many people to join as possible. it would be sometime in february, no exact date. anybody interested in helping me out with rules and such details?

[blackcat]

So i talked to the manager at the putt-putt in anderson. he wants to throw an itg tourny. maybe a ddr tourny too im not sure. probably 10 entry fee. and i want as many people to join as possible. it would be sometime in february, no exact date. anybody interested in helping me out with rules and such details?

look at the rules for LF1, and add a rule: 3rd random song is rechosen if it is the same as one of the first 2.

oops. sorry. this is BigBadOrc, not blackcat

[ITGMS Mike]

well actually, i need help talking to the manager. this is how he wants to do it. he wants everyone to buy 5 dollars in tokens as their entry fees. and picking matches is drawing names out of a box. so i kinda need help explaining to him that we should use the seeding method. i cant explain myself since i dont really understand why its done. i just want to do it because i want to do it the way that has worked in the past.

[Ho]

Personally, I have never really seen the point of having BOTH seeding AND double elimination. The point of either is to prevent highly skilled players from eliminating one another in an early round and give them an opportunity to meet each other in the finals.

Seeding does this by preventing them from meeting at all (assuming the seeding is done properly and competitors do not sandbag). Double elimination compensates for a possible early elimination of a highly skilled player by offering the opportunity for that player to progress through the losers bracket for a spot in the championship round.

Doing both could improve the results, but my personal opinion is that seeding is rather boring and is easily manipulated/tampered with. Do what you want, but if you're going to do double elimination, I think you can safely skip seeding (and do a random draw) with little to no effect on the outcome of the tournament.

[ITGMS Mike]

that is a good point. well ive got a while to figure things out. im just gonna wait until i hear more opinions.

[blackcat]

Doing both could improve the results

double elim guarantees 1st and 2nd place is fair.

double elim + seeding maybe makes 3rd place more fair?

i r still orc lulz

[Ho]

Doing both could improve the results

double elim guarantees 1st and 2nd place is fair.

double elim + seeding maybe makes 3rd place more fair?

i r still orc lulz

Neither really guarantees anything. And neither really deals with fairness. If a tournament is structured correctly, a #1 seed vs. a #16 seed is still a fair contest. It would likely be a lopsided contest, but it would still be fair because both competitors are being held to the same set of rules.

Double elimination and seeding only make it more likely (all else being equal) that your best player and your second best player will meet in the championship round and that the remaining places are a more accurate measurement of skill in defeating evenly matched opponents rather than luck of drawing easier or harder opponents. This really doesn't affect 1st place much at all assuming that the champion never loses during the tournament--which, if he/she is truly the best player, is not that much of a stretch. It really only affects the order of the remaining places.

My personal opinion is that most dance game seeding activities are boring, and worse yet, invalid and/or pointless...

Having everyone play the same song seems more valid, but a single song is not going to be indicative of every skill required to play the game. You're likely to get someone seeded higher simply because they're better at that particular style of song and may still be defeated in the long run by someone who is a more balanced player. And let's face it...by the end of the seeding process, you never want to hear that song again! Letting everyone play the song of their choice offers more variety. But then you're not measuring anything consistent at all.

I think in either case, you'll sort out the highly skilled players from the much less skilled players, but you're probably not going to guarantee the even matchups that you really want for the most accurate placing results.

If accuracy is what you're after...run a round robin tournament. In round robin, everybody plays everybody else. You'll know for sure whether any given person can defeat any other given person with an actual match rather than placings on a bracket where the two may never have met. Just be prepared for such a tournament to last seemingly forever if you have more than just a few people involved.

[Izco]

I want to play! Someone drive me.

[danc1005]

Having everyone play the same song seems more valid, but a single song is not going to be indicative of every skill required to play the game. You're likely to get someone seeded higher simply because they're better at that particular style of song and may still be defeated in the long run by someone who is a more balanced player.

I have to agree with this. So far, in both recent Fort Wayne tournaments, I qualified higher than the likes of Shannon, Tony, and Ron, all of which are clearly overall better players than me. This is because the qualifier is a random 9, and since timing rather than stamina is my forte, I can perform on these kind of songs. The end result was a seed order non-indicative of skill level, and therefore rather pointless.

[th34nt0ni0]

I qualified higher than the likes of Shannon

no you didn't

shannon got 1ex on the qualifier monolith hard

[UnLiMiTeDmAxX]

I qualified higher than the likes of Shannon

no you didn't

shannon got 1ex on the qualifier monolith hard

true dat bitch. but no derailing..... i would like to have a tourney there.

[danc1005]

I qualified higher than the likes of Shannon

no you didn't

shannon got 1ex on the qualifier monolith hard

I qualified ahead of him in the other tourney
READ MOAR

[ITGMS Mike]

well, i kinda would prefer we do seeding just becuase i dont like the idea of drawing names out of a box. if seeding helps get the 2 best players into the finals, i would prefer that. another thing. joe(the manager) said he doesnt want to have anything to do with it, they are just in it for the money. so if the pads mess up, they arent responsible for it. IM responsible for it i guess.... they work fine right now, no more errors or anything. but any way to make sure that NOTHING goes wrong with them. im not interested in recalcs and all that. i think im gonna go by the LFI rules. would everyone be fine with that?

[UnLiMiTeDmAxX]

yessirr

[Cbav]

Addition to LF1 rules: If anyone receives a random 3rd song against Shannon and such song is Zodiac Expert, Shannon must forfeit immediately.