Elkhart Tournament UPDATED

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danc1005
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Post by danc1005 » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:18 pm

Titan2781 wrote:For the sake of stopping the constant/vexing complaints, yes the bar can be used, I'm thinking about using the same rule with using the bar as the rule for solo but I don't know.
This doesn't make much sense, because Solo affects both players, so it would make sense to ask for both players' consent to use it, whereas one person using the bar has no effect whatsoever on the other person, so that should just be up to the player.
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Post by Ho » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:27 pm

dance1005 wrote:whereas one person using the bar has no effect whatsoever on the other person, so that should just be up to the player.
I dunno about you, but I get creeped out when there's someone RAPING THE BAR right next to me. ;)
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Post by danc1005 » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:28 pm

Ho wrote:
dance1005 wrote:whereas one person using the bar has no effect whatsoever on the other person, so that should just be up to the player.
I dunno about you, but I get creeped out when there's someone RAPING THE BAR right next to me. ;)
Then I guess I'll keep my contact with the bar strictly nonsexual.
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Post by Titan2781 » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:33 pm

Fluffyumpkins wrote:
Dyme wrote:thinking that some1 is better because they dont use the bar is completely screwed up or maybe u just are. who knows
I think we can all agree that the way DDR was meant to be played does not involve 'teaning' on the bar.
I agree, I would imagine that the makers of ddr didn't think ppl would use the bar to play the game, ITG saw that ppl did and THEY designed bars with grips and whatnot... Lol anyone want to email naoki (sp) and ask?

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Post by Titan2781 » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:39 pm

dance1005 wrote:
Titan2781 wrote:For the sake of stopping the constant/vexing complaints, yes the bar can be used, I'm thinking about using the same rule with using the bar as the rule for solo but I don't know.
This doesn't make much sense, because Solo affects both players, so it would make sense to ask for both players' consent to use it, whereas one person using the bar has no effect whatsoever on the other person, so that should just be up to the player.
It was just an idea I was playing with, firstly. I know a few ppl that use the bar that get distracted when someone isn't (with arms flapping all around trying to keep up with max 300) on the flip side, personally it doesn't distract me if someone is using the bar next to me... See what I'm saying? It could distract ppl. I mean if we are gonna nit-pick lets nit-pick lmfao :-P

AND A HUGE SHOUT TO THE ADMIN!!!!!

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Post by MonMotha » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:45 pm

Just so you know, DDR machines came with padded grips on their bars. They've all fallen apart on our old, tired DDR machines and have been removed. If you can find a DDR machine that is still in very good shape (there's a few, mostly low traffic ones) or a new Supernova cabinet, you'll notice they do in fact have the padded grips.

Incidentally, those dedicab bars you refer to are not as sturdy as the bars on DDR. They're fancier though (oooh, pretty bends) as they're actually the same thing as Pump uses (ITG dedicabs are a Pump It Up GX cabinet, stage is too just with arrows in different places).

The bar originally seems to have been referred to (I don't believe officially) as the "trick bar" since it was often used to do tricks during freestyles. As the songs got faster and faster, people found that it was also useful for tech purposes. In the Pump community where songs can get outlandishly fast, players often consider passing things "with bar" (usually raping the hell out of it) and "without bar" (as in never touching it at all) completely separate accomplishments, hence the argument in the Pump world about whether tournaments should allow bar. I haven't noticed this happening so much within the DDR community, and the stigma against "bar raping" seems to have been (very slowly) disappearing over time as the songs have gotten faster.
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Post by Titan2781 » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:54 pm

....eww........ Pump it up is the devil...... Lmao

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Post by DDRmaster » Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:37 pm

Short Version:

- How will prizes be given out?
- How will sandbagging be handled?
- How will you decide who plays who? *kinda important*
- How do you determine the winner of two dancers? *kinda important*
- How will song choosing be determined? *pretty important*
- What about mods on songs, like speed mods?

Long Version:

I'm in pretty much the same situation as dance1005 (the tennis person) because he's basically my ride. It sounds like it's going to be a good tourney and I hope I can make it.

You listed the prizes and they sound pretty sweet, but how will they be given out? I would suggest waiting until the whole tourament is done, then letting heavy first place pick, then second, then third, then I would let standard pick going in order also. I would have completely different prizes for doubles and freestyle if they happen, but that's just me

If you use this method it would prevent against people sandbagging to get better prizes. Maybe even just having small token amounts for Standard would be cool, because someone getting fourth in Heavy would be pissed if some guy sandbagged and got a good prize on Standard that he could have easily gotten. This would also allow some of the prizes mentioned earlier to go out to the Doubles and Freestyle winners again if it happens.

How is the actual tourney going to be set up? I don't think anyone has even brought that up and it's kinda really important. I would suggest using only perfects and greats because even on the best pads, pad misses can happen. I'd determine the winner by Perfects x 2 added with Greats x 1, similar to how dance points work, and the person with more would win. I definately wouldn't use the score because it's pretty messed up overall. I also think it would be a good idea to have a decent difficulty qualifing song to place people into a bracket, that way second and third were figured fairly. Maybe even double elimination if there are less than ten or so people.

My last point is about the actual match between people. How do you plan on choosing songs? One each and then random is good, but maybe if you do qualifying the higher seed could get two picks. And what about mods? You addressed solo, but what about speed mods, will it be free choice for each as long as it only affects one person? I've seen tourneys in the past where one person chose the song and the other chooses mods that both people will use (I kinda like this one, but there will prolly be some controversy, it would address solo though).

Noah

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Post by Ho » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:41 pm

MonMotha wrote:The bar originally seems to have been referred to (I don't believe officially) as the "trick bar" since it was often used to do tricks during freestyles.
That's definitely NOT official, though it may have been commonly referred to that way at certain times and by certain groups of people. I can certainly recall a time when that seemed to be the primary use by the people I played with (and myself). Those times now seem long passed, and I'm pretty sure Konami never referred to it in that manner.

For some further insight on this, I consulted the copy of the Operator's Manual for DDR that I recently obtained. The parts inventory identifies the part as the "Safety bar."

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And get this...

There is also a diagram that shows where all the warning and safety labels are supposed to be placed on the machine.

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Though I've never actually seen a machine with it applied, it appears there's supposed to be a label on the bar.

Image

Unfortunately, my copy of the manual isn't super clear (it looks like it's maybe a copy of a fax), but my best read on that label is: "Please do not lean or hang on the handrail."

That may not answer what Konami intended the bar to be used for, but it sure seems to specify two uses they did NOT intend.
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Post by Titan2781 » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:02 pm

Ho wrote:
MonMotha wrote:The bar originally seems to have been referred to (I don't believe officially) as the "trick bar" since it was often used to do tricks during freestyles.
That's definitely NOT official, though it may have been commonly referred to that way at certain times and by certain groups of people. I can certainly recall a time when that seemed to be the primary use by the people I played with (and myself). Those times now seem long passed, and I'm pretty sure Konami never referred to it in that manner.

For some further insight on this, I consulted the copy of the Operator's Manual for DDR that I recently obtained. The parts inventory identifies the part as the "Safety bar."

Image

And get this...

There is also a diagram that shows where all the warning and safety labels are supposed to be placed on the machine.

Image

Though I've never actually seen a machine with it applied, it appears there's supposed to be a label on the bar.

Image

Unfortunately, my copy of the manual isn't super clear (it looks like it's maybe a copy of a fax), but my best read on that label is: "Please do not lean or hang on the handrail."

That may not answer what Konami intended the bar to be used for, but it sure seems to specify two uses they did NOT intend.
*applauds* there is a reason your an admin eh? Lol smart

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Post by danc1005 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:20 pm

It obviously says
"Please do not tears or thang on the handrail."
So allow it.
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Post by Ho » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:43 pm

Just so there's no confusion:

I don't have any personal opinion on bar usage for this tournament. I'm just presenting some materials that I thought people may have some interest in and were relevant to the discussion at hand.
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Post by danc1005 » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:23 pm

Sorry, I wasn't able to make it because it rained last night and we had to wait for the courts to dry so we only started around 10:30-11...and, we lost, so I probably would've been too pissed to go anyways.
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Post by Pheonixguy » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:42 pm

He he, those warnings reminded me of one time at Indiana beach when i was playing drop out hvy one of the stops on the pad was a little up, and it started rolling...
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