Homemade Tatsujin Movie

beatmania, beatmaniaIIDX, beatmania III

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MonMotha
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Post by MonMotha » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:20 pm

They're actually using square pixels at that resolution? That makes for a very wide scene with an aspect of 20:11, or nearly twice as wide as it is tall.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but for anything you're likely to see around here, which would either be 4:3 or 16:9, using that resolution would give very tall, skinny pixels. You're wasting a fair bit of data there in most cases, since most computer monitors aren't running in a mode capable of producing that without upscaling a bunch, and, in that case, you'd want more vertical pixels, too.

When I refer to standard frame aspect ratios, I'm thinking TV, not cinema. Cinema does sometimes have very wide scenes. My friend just told me of a 2.76:1 instance (20:11 is 1.82:1). Cinema is a different beast altogether, especially after post-processing.

As far as the tatsujin, looks about as awesome as I was expecting. Everything fits together nicely, and I think it looks better than the 6th style ones.

352x288 was specifically chosen to be multiples of 16, which is why I used it. That makes all forms of MPEG happier.
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Post by Ho » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:40 pm

I sat down and created a 7-key example tonight...

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click image to download Xvid AVI - 9.92 MB

The setup is very similar to the 14-key example from the weekend. One major difference is the 4:3 aspect ratio. I just didn't feel like I needed the extra width of 16:9 for single play.

I was able to get the scroll columns to line up with the corresponding buttons similarly to how I did the pop'n music tatsujin demo around the same time as the original IIDX video two years ago. The note scroll is slightly smaller than in the 14-key video so as to match the scale of the actual keys. All this certainly leads the eye to the action, but the turntable doesn't line up and I don't think the effect is quite as impressive as it was for pop'n. I think it's because of the small scale of the keys as compared to the large pop'n buttons.

To get the note scroll closer to the corresponding keys, I cropped out the graphic buttons at the bottom of the scroll. That gave me some additional room to add the note counters above the scroll (as I mentioned earlier, those were not in the 14-key video because they do not appear in 14-key mode).

I also had room to make the overhead shot larger and I added a transparency matte that hugs the outer edge of the turntable for no good reason other than I thought it would look cool. ;)
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Post by MonMotha » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:54 pm

Looks awesome. I especially like the transitions between exclusively the game footage and the full multi-angle view. Not sure about the "turntable in space" however.

Also, while not noticible in the video, your screenshot seems to indicate that the angles aren't perfectly synced as the screen is showing a grade (just great) while the scroll from the game video is not showing it. Is that due to display lag or actual desync? The difference looks like 1 frame, which seems to be within the lag tolerance of the monitor on that machine.
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Post by bacon » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:32 am

the above angle looks too be early along with the video out

the turntable does look a bit out of place in the screenshot but doesnt seem so when watching the video

how did you crop around the turn table?

also now that you've added the judgments totals in the top right you might want try capturing digitally for better quality. since your capturing at home a less mobile setup can probably be rigged for getting video out. vcr is good for on location filming, but i think capturing the video out digitally would look mucho better. even if you connect the ps2 or tv up to a capture device with out using digital cables, i still think the end result would look better than capturing off a vhs.

about h264; since its not as commonly installed as xvid/mp3 on most computers i havnt started using it yet. i prefer not hearing as many complaints about users not being able to view the video because they don't have the codec. with flash going h264, i think its is fucking incredible and i will definitely use that as the standard for my site once it becomes more widespread.

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Post by Amp Divorax » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:49 am

Ok, the proper resolution for 1.85:1 aspect ratio content is 640x346, as mentioned though 352 follows the closest multiple of 16.

Very nicely done video overall. The only negative aspect I see is the lower resolution, but that's just me.
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Post by liquidblue aka DBV » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:12 am

*snip*
Last edited by liquidblue aka DBV on Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by bacon » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:19 am

there have been hundreds of multi angle dm videos coming from mogu2.com/kuroiwa

some are just more odd than productive

edit; some of the stealth videos he shot have a cool transparency effect

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and some gf action

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Post by liquidblue aka DBV » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:32 am

oh i know
i'm just saying for brian's own experience etc.

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Post by Ho » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:57 am

MonMotha wrote:Also, while not noticible in the video, your screenshot seems to indicate that the angles aren't perfectly synced as the screen is showing a grade (just great) while the scroll from the game video is not showing it. Is that due to display lag or actual desync? The difference looks like 1 frame, which seems to be within the lag tolerance of the monitor on that machine.
bacon wrote:the above angle looks too be early along with the video out
I guess that shows how late it got for me (for a weeknight) that I didn't notice something like that.

I went back and checked the sync just now. It's just fine. It looks the reason the combo display appears in the wide shot and not in the direct game video is due to a deinterlacing artifact.

The combo display on the game video was either in the process of appearing or disappearing. The deinterlacing in the final render averaged out the frame as though it wasn't there. Meanwhile, the monitor in the live shot was also deinterlacing the image since it's 720p native and has to convert the 480i signal from the PS2. It apparently decided to average its display the opposite direction.

It's actually rather difficult to get a sensible looking screenshot where everything looks like it's correct because the true nature of the game almost excludes such a freeze frame. The key hit (and button lights) come just before the notes hit the red line...usually by one frame. That could be slight lag in the display. But I'll bet I'd see something similar even on an analog CRT. Only the distance between the note and line might be slightly smaller.

However, the actual grading of the hit (the lighting of the column, the note explosion, and the combo display) comes one or two frames after that. Regardless of lag, it's going to take at least one frame's worth of time for the Playstation to register and display the results of input. It may have received your command, but the current frame is already being displayed and it has to wait for at least the next frame to display it. And in that time, the player has usually already moved on to hit the next key resulting in the key light going out. At speed, a player rarely holds a key for more than a couple frames. IIDX doesn't have freezes afterall. ;)

In summary, it is pretty much impossible to find a single frame where the keys are depressed and lit AND the note scroll looks like it's reacting at that precise moment.
MonMotha wrote:Not sure about the "turntable in space" however.
bacon wrote:the turntable does look a bit out of place in the screenshot but doesnt seem so when watching the video


how did you crop around the turn table?
That's just me always wanting to try something new. I'm not sure how I feel about it either. I just figured it would be a subtle way of saying, "Hey, I did more than just slap a bunch of different angles on top of each other. :)"

As for how, I just took a still frame of that source into Photoshop, created a matte that went around the edge of the turntable, and used it as a transparency map in Premiere.
bacon wrote:also now that you've added the judgments totals in the top right you might want try capturing digitally for better quality. since your capturing at home a less mobile setup can probably be rigged for getting video out. vcr is good for on location filming, but i think capturing the video out digitally would look mucho better. even if you connect the ps2 or tv up to a capture device with out using digital cables, i still think the end result would look better than capturing off a vhs.
I agree. They're a little rough. Unfortunately, I don't currently have a way to capture the PS2 digitally. First of all, the PS2 doesn't actually produce a digital video signal. The best it could do would be component or RGB, both of which are still analog. Unfortunately, I only have equipment to capture analog signals in s-video at best. The main reason the game video is showing some analog "problems" is that I was using a really old tape that was just lying around and has been recorded over many, many times. It's just plain worn out. This was just a test, so I didn't really care. Had I made the recording on a fresh tape, you might not have even noticed the quality problems...the video compression isn't helping matters either.
Amp Divorax wrote:Very nicely done video overall. The only negative aspect I see is the lower resolution, but that's just me.
I'm not sure what you mean. This was done in the same resolution as the last--only 4:3 rather than 16:9. Frame size of the 14-key example was 480x270 and the 7-key was 360x270. Both were downsampled from their original DV resolution of 720x480 (1.2 and 0.9 pixel aspect respectively). There really shouldn't be any quality difference between the two.
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Post by Amp Divorax » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:46 pm

Ho wrote:I'm not sure what you mean. This was done in the same resolution as the last--only 4:3 rather than 16:9. Frame size of the 14-key example was 480x270 and the 7-key was 360x270. Both were downsampled from their original DV resolution of 720x480 (1.2 and 0.9 pixel aspect respectively). There really shouldn't be any quality difference between the two.
Personally I'm mainly a fan of seeing released at 640x480 res when possible (Which is also why I said it's probably just me), albeit the end result with DivX would be a filesize increase from 10 megs - 30-40 megs or 20-30 megs with H.264.
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Post by Jizzon » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:50 pm

It's too bad that BlackMagic has stated that they have no plans to make any mobile Intensity/Intensity Pro options; you'd have some killer quality footage to work with! It would be great to finally have the ability to capture uncompressed SD/HD through YPbPr, S, and junk yellow jacks on the relative cheap (~$350). Your home computer's still the old Athlon XP 2400+, right? You could build a Shuttle capture box for not too much money, hmm...
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Post by Ho » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:24 pm

Amp Divorax wrote:Personally I'm mainly a fan of seeing released at 640x480 res when possible (Which is also why I said it's probably just me), albeit the end result with DivX would be a filesize increase from 10 megs - 30-40 megs or 20-30 megs with H.264.
These were just demos. The resolution and quality were more for distribution purposes to get some feedback. If I were to produce these "for real" (as though these are somehow "not real"), I would probably produce and release them to the same specs as the tournament videos I've been doing lately.

There's also always the possibility of a DVD release. The caveat would be that I've been ignoring safe areas lately since I've been doing exclusively online releases. Of course a DVD release could also mean a DVD with high quality computer-based clips on it rather than true DVD-Video.
Jizzon wrote:Your home computer's still the old Athlon XP 2400+, right? You could build a Shuttle capture box for not too much money, hmm...
Yup. I've still go that box. It's pretty much been reduced to an overpowered file server. I also have at least 2 or 3 other computers sitting around completely unutilized that could probably work as capture boxes. Of course none of them would be as convenient to tote around as the Shuttle.
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Post by MonMotha » Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:06 pm

Jizzon wrote:It's too bad that BlackMagic has stated that they have no plans to make any mobile Intensity/Intensity Pro options; you'd have some killer quality footage to work with! It would be great to finally have the ability to capture uncompressed SD/HD through YPbPr, S, and junk yellow jacks on the relative cheap (~$350). Your home computer's still the old Athlon XP 2400+, right? You could build a Shuttle capture box for not too much money, hmm...
Sounds like a challenge... I want 4:4:4 capture on the analog inputs, anyway, for grabbing DDR and Pump directly off their native video outputs in RGB.

I still think SVHS works fine for this application if you use a good tape. Remember that it's being downscaled in most cases anyway.
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Post by liquidblue aka DBV » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:08 pm

MonMotha wrote: Sounds like a challenge... I want 4:4:4 capture on the analog inputs, anyway, for grabbing DDR and Pump directly off their native video outputs in RGB.
Why though? Isn't like the Viper the only camcorder that can film in 4:4:4?

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Post by Merk » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:26 pm

Man, MonMotha does not like to use his thumbs. It's cool though, I don't think I've ever seen a person play like that.

But anyway, those are some nice professional quality videos Brian. It's a lot better than what most of us can do. My videos tend to just be a crummy screen capture with off-sync sound : \

How did you get the top-down shot? Did you just mount a camera somewhere on the IIDX cab and aim it at the keys?
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