Congrats Ho

Post by **MonMotha** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:02 pm

Amp Divorax wrote:Also, I must personally call blastemphy for using a LCD screen on that setup cause I have never seen one that can properly deinterlace standard definition signals, but I will admit to being preferential towards my Sony CRT.

There are plenty of LCDs out there with decent deinterlacers and good latency characteristics. Even plasmas are (evidently) getting better in this regard. I agree that a CRT would be ideal, but direct view widescreen CRTs simply aren't available in the required size and RP CRTs are a pain in the butt to deal with. The stock monitor for IIDX is actually an old RP LCD.

Amp Divorax · Post by **Amp Divorax** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:38 pm

From what I've saw when I played RED in Japan, the monitor used with IIDX is a 34" CRT and it was using a SCART connection. Every LCD that I've seen on a IIDX machine has been a storebought piece of garbage up to this point so if they did use LCDs in the past then I'm surprised.

Post by **MonMotha** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:26 pm

I believe the stock monitor may have changed with time. Many of the newer machines I played on had a smaller direct view CRT. Some older machines also had the same monitor with the same bezel but it was obviously a replacement. I'm guessing you can call up Konami and say "my monitor sux0rz" and that's what they sell you. I played on plenty that had their original monitor and they definately were getting blurry, but that's just due to age. The old machines with the original huge monitor were definately using projection screens and were not CRT. From what I've been told by people who own machines, it's an LCD projection (480p). This makes sense: DLP and LCOS were not established when IIDX cabinets were first designed, but RP LCD was doable and didn't suffer from the problems that RP CRT does (mostly burn-in and convergance drift). Unfortunately, it appears that they suffer from other problems when run continuously for years at a time. Even today, DLP is not an option due to processing lag. I've yet to find a DLP on which IIDX or even DDR is playable.

I'm guessing Konami picked their original monitor carefully. Also, TVs have recently been moving towards "cheaper at all costs", which has some implications for this type of application.

I also played on one with a very badly modded in Plasma. It looked GREAT from a distance, but the lag made it almost unplayable. Players at that particular venue made extensive use of "reverse towel" (essentially hidden+, but before that existed). They had constructed a wooden bezel to surround it. The monitor was significantly larger than the new CRTs, being about the size of the original RP LCD. It looked fine from far away, but up close the bezel looked horrible and it had a noticable screen door effect. The bezel obviously is just a construction issue, and I know plasmas have less of a screen door issue now. Still, I hate plasma (they suck power like nobody's business and suffer from burn-in, especially when used as an arcade monitor).

I played on well over 10 machines, so I've got a number of data points. Total different types of monitors I saw was I think 4: The original projection type, the new (Hitachi IIRC) direct view CRT with metal bezel, another random CRT, and the plasma. By far the best were the ones running the new CRT that appears to have been endorsed by Konami. This included Muthos; the one at Muthos was clearly a replacement as the machine still had a substream decal on it! The worst were the ones running the old projections - they were so blurry that you could barely read the scroll, not to mention almost being TOO big. The plasma was just very laggy, but otherwise fine. The one running the hacked up CRT setup also worked fine. None of them held a candle to the setup Putt-Putt was using though in terms of sheer horribleness.

Other than RP CRT, you really don't have much of a choice in the size of a IIDX monitor other than LCD (RP and direct view) or plasma. If you discount RP CRT (burn in, high maintenance, rather large and may not fit) and plasma (again burn in, high power), you end up using an LCD since there just isn't any other option short of dropping down to a 34" direct view CRT (I don't know that any bigger is made in widescreen).

lgolem · Post by **lgolem** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:03 pm

so Ho when we having that Ho down...don't say new years cause then it will be all guys and it would suck to spend new years at a place with no womenz...I bet I could get some of the b-town recluses to tag along....in all seriousness we do need to hang out and play dance games and make alot less gay jokes at me. ^_^

Post by **MonMotha** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:08 pm

Why do you care if there are women?

lgolem · Post by **lgolem** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:10 pm

MonMotha wrote:Why do you care if there are women?

Because as we know

I have a breadstick for them

WhiteDragon · Post by **WhiteDragon** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:11 pm

Aww... but it's less fun that way...

lgolem · Post by **lgolem** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:16 pm

WhiteDragon wrote:Aww... but it's less fun that way...

We hung out many other times without you doing so...

WhiteDragon · Post by **WhiteDragon** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:18 pm

Well, yes, but there was never a nickel any of those times

Fluffyumpkins · Post by **Fluffyumpkins** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:52 pm

How many inside joke threads do we need?

I kid I kid.

BakaOrochi · Post by **BakaOrochi** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:34 am

Wait a sec.

When did IIDX official monitors use CRT?

That's news to me.

Post by **MonMotha** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:48 am

All the new machines in Japan seem to be using CRTs these days. At the very least, many many machines have CRTs on them, and they all appear to be the same model with the same custom-fitted bezel, leading me to believe that either Konami or somebody else sells a kit or similar to replace the old and dying LCD monitors. Only old machines still had the RP LCD on them - all the new ones had a CRT, so I'm guessing that is the new monitor style.

Amp Divorax · Post by **Amp Divorax** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:56 am

They started using the CRTs on IIDX when 9th style first came out to coinside with the change from PSone based hardware to using an actual PC hookup. To this day though I still have to wonder why in the hell they didn't just use a VGA/DVI connection for the game and opted to use basic TV outputs for the country. (Composite, S-Video, and SCART)

Edit: Wait, I just remember that IIDX AC uses no antialiasing and it's on 640x480 so the jaggies and MPEG-2 compression will stick out like sore thumbs.

BakaOrochi · Post by **BakaOrochi** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:56 am

Wait.

OK, first off.

-The original factory monitors were projection. They always have been.
-The replacement monitors I believe are LCD, but I was told they're not CRT (although I was told Japan was the only place that sells CRT's appropriate for IIDX in over 25"). However, you can still use the original monitors, although they look ugly as piss (not to mention dark).
-IIDX original hardware was NEVER 573 (or any PS1/PS2 based hardware). It was either Firebeat, Viper, or another custom hardware that eludes me.

Post by Ho » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:57 am

I speak to that last point because I just disassembled and cleaned the system unit in my cabinet. IIDX AC (prior to 9th Style) runs on the Twinkle hardware. This is also what's listed on System 16.

Like System 573, Twinkle is also Playstation (one) based. However, it seems to be much more customized and expanded from a basic PS1 than System 573 was.

Also, for those interested, I have a very detailed writeup in my LJ about the initial weekend with IIDX including the process of retrieving it from Ft. Wayne and setting it up in the basement.

I'll have additional stories and pictures soon as I continue the process of cleaning, testing, and troubleshooting the machine. Suffice to say, it's got some issues.

IndyDDR.com

Congrats Ho

Re: Congrats Ho