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Postby Ho » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:16 pm

I've had my JP PS2 since before the slim models were available, so I didn't really have a choice. I'm not sure what choice I would make if I were making the purchase now.

I insist on owning these games, but the HDD can be handy if I want to take them "on location" somewhere. It's a lot easier (and safer) to chuck a hard drive in there than to actually travel with all those discs.

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The arcade cabinets are currently all on one circuit as the basement only has one circuit except for the bar/bathroom circuit that we added ourselves. We bought the house with the basement unfinished, so there was only the bare miniumum down there. The builder provided four outlets on a 15A circuit.

I tested having all five cabinets plus the TV and stereo that's down there on all at once. The breaker didn't trip. However, at a recent get together we did trip the breaker twice with all five cabinets on and the TV/stereo wasn't even on. The difference may have been two fold: 1) The games were all being played and were not sitting idle. 2) I also have a PC plugged into that circuit that acts as a server. I recently replaced that server with a more powerful PC (though still quite old) that no doubt has larger power requirements.
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Postby Arka » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:54 pm

Ho wrote:I've had my JP PS2 since before the slim models were available, so I didn't really have a choice. I'm not sure what choice I would make if I were making the purchase now.

I insist on owning these games, but the HDD can be handy if I want to take them "on location" somewhere. It's a lot easier (and safer) to chuck a hard drive in there than to actually travel with all those discs.

Point... and one that didn't really occur to me, but should have, as I'd like to be able to drag my gear around to indoctrinate potential Bemani addicts. :D

I can limit myself to taking the newer games, though - the ones that are still in print (!), and would be replaceable if something should happen. And when I actually relocate myself, I can go to great lengths to ensure safe transport... hopefully. :?

Oh well, I have a pretty good track record with preservation of electronic media, hopefully it'll hold.

BTW, while I was aware of your ownership status before, I'd like to take this opportunity to say that it's nice not to be the only one who insists on actually buying and paying for these things...

By the way, I note that you don't have any of the pre-IIDX beatmania releases! Not a fan, or does the beginning of your collection just coincide with the beginning of your interest in Bemani? Either way, I'm jealous... but I think that goes without saying where your Bemani collection is concerned. :P

Ho wrote:The arcade cabinets are currently all on one circuit as the basement only has one circuit except for the bar/bathroom circuit that we added ourselves. We bought the house with the basement unfinished, so there was only the bare miniumum down there. The builder provided four outlets on a 15A circuit.

I tested having all five cabinets plus the TV and stereo that's down there on all at once. The breaker didn't trip. However, at a recent get together we did trip the breaker twice with all five cabinets on and the TV/stereo wasn't even on. The difference may have been two fold: 1) The games were all being played and were not sitting idle. 2) I also have a PC plugged into that circuit that acts as a server. I recently replaced that server with a more powerful PC (though still quite old) that no doubt has larger power requirements.

Out of curiosity, how much more current do arcade cabinets draw when being played? I'm woefully nescient on that.

Now I really want to deploy a multimeter to your basement. As well as several cameras. Though you do a pretty good job of putting photos out there as is... shutterbug. :wink:
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Postby Ho » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:07 pm

Arka wrote:By the way, I note that you don't have any of the pre-IIDX beatmania releases! Not a fan, or does the beginning of your collection just coincide with the beginning of your interest in Bemani? Either way, I'm jealous... but I think that goes without saying where your Bemani collection is concerned. :P

I've had very little exposure to them and thusly don't have a ton of interest in them. However, with regard to what I said in this post, I'd probably be compelled to get a 5-key controller if I was going to get into 5-key beatmania. I think that acquiring yet another controller and attempting to master the game with left hand on keys or cross-handed are about the last things I need to add to my music game to-do list. ;)

Arka wrote:Out of curiosity, how much more current do arcade cabinets draw when being played? I'm woefully nescient on that.

Now I really want to deploy a multimeter to your basement. As well as several cameras. Though you do a pretty good job of putting photos out there as is... shutterbug. :wink:

I don't have any hard numbers for you. MonMotha actually got me a multimeter for my birthday, but I'm generally too dumb to know how to operate it. Electricity has always eluded my understanding. I can wire up simple things and make them work, but I have a tough time with the underlying principles. So I can install light switches, outlets, overhead lighting, etc. and I might be able to keep from killing myself with a project kit, but I won't necessarily be able to explain how it all works. Basically, I can follow directions. :)

But as for being played vs. sitting idle...with the music games especially, I'm sure driving all that thumpin' bass during game play makes the amps draw more current than when the game is just sitting there (especially since I often have attract mode sound turned off). In the case of my driving game, I'm sure the motors for the force feedback steering take a little extra juice. You get the idea.

I've often joked of going outside to my power meter, having someone switch on all the games, and watching the meter do its best helicopter impression.
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Postby MonMotha » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:23 pm

The power around here tends to run around 125V on unloaded sockets, dipping to around 120 under heavy (near full) load. The voltage delivered to homes in the USA has been slowly increasing over time in an attempt to move appliances to higher voltages and lower currents, thereby increasing transmission (within the home) efficiency.

I believe the last time I measured the voltage on the wall socket that Ho's DDR machine is plugged into it was 121, right around the 120 "standard". My house runs a bit higher. I've seen 130 before, but 123-127 seems normal. Of course, the calibration of my multimeter is up for debate (all my multimeters seem to be in agreement, though, including the one in my Tek rack, so I'll presume they're close).

Most modern digital electronics run off switching supplies, anyway. Those types of supplies act more like constant power devices than simple resistive loads, at least over small (<50V or so, for consumer 120V spec'd devices) ranges.

For the record, there is a (slight) difference between Japan's NTSC and American NTSC (respectively, NTSC-J and NTSC-M, not to be confused by the Playstation region codes of similar naming): black level. In Japanese NTSC, black and blanking are at the same level, while in American NTSC black is a slightly higher level than blanking. The difference is simple to fix, however: adjust your brightness control.

As for countries with strange TV standards, check out Brazil. They use PAL color encoding but with NTSC timings. I don't know what the frequency of the color subcarrier is (it should be 3.579545MHz, just like ours given the timings).
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Postby Arka » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:23 pm

MonMotha wrote:I believe the last time I measured the voltage on the wall socket that Ho's DDR machine is plugged into it was 121, right around the 120 "standard". My house runs a bit higher. I've seen 130 before, but 123-127 seems normal. Of course, the calibration of my multimeter is up for debate (all my multimeters seem to be in agreement, though, including the one in my Tek rack, so I'll presume they're close).

Hmm... that's impressive. In both of the Indiana residences I've stayed in for a substantial period of time, the low-load wall voltage was around 110V. Of course, I only used two multimeters, one of which looked to be older than I am, so my equipment may be at fault. (How many multimeters does one man need?!*) :oops:

Of course, it could be a city vs. town thing. I can well believe that the (not tiny, but not metropolis) towns I've lived in would be too resistant to change or too poor (or several other things) to fiddle around with their supplied voltages. Of course, I have no idea where they actually get their power FROM...

Now I'm really curious, though. I'd kill to be able to construct a regional map of average supplied voltage over, say, the USA, to see if the city vs. town pattern (or any other) is valid.

MonMotha wrote:The power around here tends to run around 125V on unloaded sockets, dipping to around 120 under heavy (near full) load. The voltage delivered to homes in the USA has been slowly increasing over time in an attempt to move appliances to higher voltages and lower currents, thereby increasing transmission (within the home) efficiency.

Oh, so NOW they're realizing that a higher voltage is better for reducing losses? How good of them. Maybe in a hundred years we'll have caught up with the Europeans. :P

MonMotha wrote:Most modern digital electronics run off switching supplies, anyway. Those types of supplies act more like constant power devices than simple resistive loads, at least over small (<50V or so, for consumer 120V spec'd devices) ranges.

Don't they have to?

MonMotha wrote:For the record, there is a (slight) difference between Japan's NTSC and American NTSC (respectively, NTSC-J and NTSC-M, not to be confused by the Playstation region codes of similar naming): black level. In Japanese NTSC, black and blanking are at the same level, while in American NTSC black is a slightly higher level than blanking. The difference is simple to fix, however: adjust your brightness control.

Yes, I am fully aware that I will not be getting the "complete Japanese experience." I think I'd have to learn about 6,000 more kanji for that, too. :wink:

You sound like one of those people who likes learning the contradictory minutiae of television "standards." You should be in closed captioning. :D

MonMotha wrote:As for countries with strange TV standards, check out Brazil. They use PAL color encoding but with NTSC timings. I don't know what the frequency of the color subcarrier is (it should be 3.579545MHz, just like ours given the timings).

:shock:
How did THAT happen?

Oh, and
Ho wrote:I think that acquiring yet another controller and attempting to master the game with left hand on keys or cross-handed are about the last things I need to add to my music game to-do list.

Huh? I'm confused - why would you need to do this and why would it be bad?

Ho wrote:MonMotha actually got me a multimeter for my birthday...

I virtually died when I read this. :lol: I need friends like you guys - I never get instrumentation for MY birthday. :cry: :lol:

*Of course you know, as do all engineers, that the correct answer is "All of them."
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Postby Ho » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:24 pm

Arka wrote:
Ho wrote:I think that acquiring yet another controller and attempting to master the game with left hand on keys or cross-handed are about the last things I need to add to my music game to-do list.

Huh? I'm confused - why would you need to do this and why would it be bad?

(5-key) beatmania controllers have the turntable on the right side and the keys on the left. This is not reversible like it is on IIDX controllers because original beatmania cabinets were not mirrored between 1P and 2P the way that IIDX cabinets are.

I've tried training myself to play IIDX with my left hand on the keys. My ability to pass songs drops by at least two stars. Although I gave up out of frustration...it's at least theoretically possible that I could get better with practice. But I need enough practice with my right hand on the keys already. ;)
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Postby danc1005 » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:21 am

Arka wrote:I'd like to be able to drag my gear around to indoctrinate potential Bemani addicts. :D


*Raises hand* Ooh, me, me, pick me!

Arka wrote:Maybe in a hundred years we'll have caught up with the Europeans. :P


QFE, and not just about power.
Sorry, my European pride got to me.

On-tangent, the PSP comes standard with an 100-240V adapter for charging, which was rather convenient for this vacation, as I only had to take an adapter and not a transformer.
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Postby Arka » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:41 pm

Ho wrote:I've tried training myself to play IIDX with my left hand on the keys. My ability to pass songs drops by at least two stars. Although I gave up out of frustration...it's at least theoretically possible that I could get better with practice. But I need enough practice with my right hand on the keys already. ;)

Yikes. :shock:
Sorry, that issue didn't occur to me. Should have, but didn't.
It's okay... you're still probably better than I am with either hand. Speaking of which, I need to put up some more VJArmy scores (I abused some more songs until I could beat you on them).

dance1005 wrote:
Arka wrote:I'd like to be able to drag my gear around to indoctrinate potential Bemani addicts. :D

*Raises hand* Ooh, me, me, pick me!

:shock: Wow, they're queuing already! This is sorta funny, given that I just (unknowingly) referred to you as a potential Bemani addict in another thread. :P
The problem is that with the current order queue, even if I get in now it'll probably be the better part of a year before I have a Ransai. By then you'll have your own Bemani zoo. :wink:
But I'm always up for some competitive Beatmania and/or Guitar Hero and/or non-competitive freestyle and/or karaoke. 8)

dance1005 wrote:
Arka wrote:Maybe in a hunderd years we'll have caught up with the Europeans. :P


QFE, and not just about power.
Sorry, my European pride got to me.

Don't get too prideful yet; there are plenty of other things in which the Europeans are light-years behind. For instance, 50Hz refresh rates? What's up with that? And you know the only reason Europe switched over to 240V was because everyone there was still too poor to own appliances by the time Tesla finished his experiments. :wink:
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Postby Ho » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:13 pm

Arka wrote:light-years

Please, please, please tell me you were using that as a measure of distance.
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Postby Arka » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:25 pm

Ho wrote:
Arka wrote:light-years

Please, please, please tell me you were using that as a measure of distance.

How else would I be using it? To my knowledge, there's only one meaning of the word.

Edit: oh, I see. In the "It's the ship that made the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs!" sense.

Nah, it was distance. :P
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Postby Ho » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:09 pm

I see many people ignorantly use it as a measure of time. It seemed to me that the way you used it could be interpreted as such, but I figured that you would know better. :)
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Postby Arka » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:46 pm

Yeah, I worked that out eventually. I'm insulted that you had to ask, but flattered that you figured I would know better. :wink:

And you were correct: physics is one of my specialties, so it would be rather difficult for me to make that error. It would be kind of sad if I knew what sterradians and barns were but not what a light-year is. :P

Oh well, could be worse - my first thought on reading your post was that the phrase "light-years ahead" had some obscenely sexual and/or racist double-meaning. Stranger things have happened... :oops:
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Postby danc1005 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:48 am

Arka wrote: It would be kind of sad if I knew what barns were but not what a light-year is. :P


BARNS ARE WHERE FARMERS KEEP ANIMALS. DUH.
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Postby Arka » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:02 am

Very true. However, they are also a unit of area measure on (roughly) atomic scale. I remain convinced that this terminology came about only so that experimental nuclear physicists could talk about the difficulty of hitting the broad side of a barn. :wink:
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Postby danc1005 » Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:25 pm

Pop'n thread was the only one that didn't have any activity in August, so I decided to bring it up to speeeeeed.
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