This game

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Re: This game

Post by Merk » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:23 pm

Cbav wrote:Merk speaks the truth, maybe the 'In The Groove' subforum should be renamed to 'Open Source Dance Simulation', because that shit's alive
Except ITG is not, you know, actually open source. But I understand the spirit of what you're trying to say.

Do you guys feel that many of the most difficult unofficial songs out there play the same? I watched that Saleri video and watched some 100% Uber Rave and the steps seemed very similar. I thought the hardest officials had a healthy variety to them for the most part but from what I have seen from the common unofficials is the same ol' step-jump-step-jump separated by 16th note runs with some crossovers thrown in. I have no doubt that there are other top-tier hardest unofficials that don't do this, but from whatever experience I have playing at Putt-Putt and watching YouTube the majority of the popular songs play out pretty much the same way with hardly any mine fields, hands, tri/quads, rolls, or anything else that makes ITG unique from DDR.

Extreme did a great job, in my opinion, in making each of the 10s unique despite having a lot less to work with than ITG. 300, MaxX, TLoM, PS, PSMO, and bag (lol) all had very different, challenging yet enjoyable charts. Players of course were a lot worse back then than they are now, and I'd imagine those charts are push-overs now. Have dancing games gotten to the point where the only real challenge is some gimmick chart or 1300+ stamina destroyer? Is the next step taking away the bar?

Thoughts?
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Re: This game

Post by chocobojoe » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:36 pm

You forgot Sakura lolololol

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Re: This game

Post by Merk » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:40 pm

Doesssssn't couuuuuuunt. Pretty sure it was changed to a 9 in Supernova or Supernova 2. Just like Burnin' the Floor was changed back to a 7

Stupid Konami
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Re: This game

Post by chocobojoe » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:02 pm

You were talkin' about Extreme, though! Semantics!

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Re: This game

Post by Cbav » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:24 pm

Extreme was well stepped? I guess if you like 8th notes and more 8th notes.

As far as ITG unofficials goes, the harder unofficial charts still feature a larger variety than Konami ever designed. You mentioned Max300, Maxx, TLoM, PS, and PSMO having a good variety of steps, in which they did. I can think through the stepcharts right now in my head, and Yes, they do have their own 'flair' that makes them unique. And I'll agree that Konami did a good job with these, but what about the rest of 95% of DDR? 8th notes, that's honestly about it, with the exception of BAG. But comparing ITG Unofficials and DDR Officials doesn't really work out too well. Especially difficulty wise, the hardest DDR (extreme) Stepchart compares in difficulty (PSMO) to an ITG 11 or easy 12, while ITGs harder unofficial charts rank up to 18s.

Back to my argument of saying that ITG Unofficials have a bigger variety than what Merk said.. I can understand what you're saying, and looking at Uber Rave and using that as an example is silly, because it was designed as nothing but a stamina chart. But you should honestly check out some of the other packs out there. DDR Stepcharts are a joke compared to what some of these guys have put out there. I highly suggest playing through some Mandodo's packs, nearly all of Monst3rJoe's simfiles, and the simfile pack recently released by Mootz. All of which can be found here: link, Also ITG Rebirth was very well produced. Despite mainstream belief.. it was actually quite an incredible release, and all of the stepcharts feature that kind of "flair" that you hinted on those DDR 10s having.
(also check this pack out: released today and they're all so good- http://www.aaronin.jp/boards/viewtopic.php?t=6085)

But, with the comment of harder charts lacking that uniqueness / variety.. a lot of them are written that way because Yes, a large majority of the dancing game community enjoys the challenge that comes with stamina charts. And with songs that are at those speeds and the amount of steps involved, there's little opportunity to add that "trademark" crossover stream, because that's uncomfortable and no one likes doing 200bpm 16th crossovers.

tl;dr
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Re: This game

Post by chocobojoe » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:02 pm

there is no such thing as "ITG unofficial charts" it's Stepmania
by the logic we're working with here, every DDR chart could be an "unofficial ITG chart", just slap it on a USB drive and play it on an r21 or r23 machine!

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Re: This game

Post by DAVE101 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:33 pm

I really dislike DDR and I do horrible when I try to play it (never SDG'd a song) and as much as I hate to say it, I think your wrong CBAV.
Cbav wrote:Extreme was well stepped? I guess if you like 8th notes and more 8th notes.
Imagine saying ITG1 was well stepped to someone like mad matt who does 24th trills at ludicrous speeds.

"ITG1 was well stepped? I guess if you like 16th notes at 160 BPM."
Cbav wrote:...the hardest DDR (extreme) Stepchart compares in difficulty (PSMO) to an ITG 11 or easy 12, while ITGs harder unofficial charts rank up to 18s.
Well, when extreme came out, barely anyone could do those anyway, and when ITG came out, barely anyone could do 13s. It would have been stupid to put something like a 16 in there
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Re: This game

Post by Fluffyumpkins » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:45 pm

DAVE101 wrote:
Cbav wrote:...the hardest DDR (extreme) Stepchart compares in difficulty (PSMO) to an ITG 11 or easy 12, while ITGs harder unofficial charts rank up to 18s.
Well, when extreme came out, barely anyone could do those anyway, and when ITG came out, barely anyone could do 13s. It would have been stupid to put something like a 16 in there
Good point. Charts have evolved over the years to compensate for difficulty. I'm sure the much older players can recall when Drop Out was OMFG FAST AND HARD. I think Konami is aware that people would like a challenge and have brought back chart generation (though in a simple and somewhat disappointing form) for partially that purpose.

Arguing the difference between DDR and ITG is like arguing the difference between fast food burgers. They're essentially the same thing, which makes them equally fun.
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Re: This game

Post by Cbav » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:53 pm

chocobojoe wrote:there is no such thing as "ITG unofficial charts" it's Stepmania
by the logic we're working with here, every DDR chart could be an "unofficial ITG chart", just slap it on a USB drive and play it on an r21 or r23 machine!
Why would you even bother posting that? Hahaha. We all know what I was talking about.
DAVE101 wrote:
Cbav wrote:Extreme was well stepped? I guess if you like 8th notes and more 8th notes.
Imagine saying ITG1 was well stepped to someone like mad matt who does 24th trills at ludicrous speeds.
"ITG1 was well stepped? I guess if you like 16th notes at 160 BPM."
I actually would say that to Matt, because I think ITG1 was well stepped. It doesn't matter that he can move his feet fast, ITG1 and 2 were both stepped very well and had a much larger variety of patterns than seen in any of the handful of DDR Mixes that Konami has pumped out in the past. The fact of the matter is, DDR Extreme / all versions before it, were filled with Heavy charts with lots of 8th notes - and there's no arguing that fact. Sight read AAAs on DDR is common. Sight read Quad Stars on ITG is next to never.

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Re: This game

Post by DAVE101 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:54 pm

GTFO!!!!
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Re: This game

Post by Cbav » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:11 pm

lol indyddr :]

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Re: This game

Post by Fluffyumpkins » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:17 am

I admit that Konami's charting ought to be better than it is. Sure they have a few really great and memorable charts, but those aren't common enough. Where DDR really beat ITG, I think, was the quality of their songs. There was a large variety of tracks (more than j-pop) made by a wealth of production artists. Kyle Ward is awful. I have the same problem with PIU Pro. I'd rather play a DDR Slake only mix than hear more generic KaW tracks.

R21 and later changed this, obviously, but that was not until the legal suit.
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Re: This game

Post by Merk » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:46 am

Now this is something I also never really understood as well, how come nearly all the ITG players I have known hate Pump and PIU Pro? Both games share the same 1000+ notes per song attitude and since PIU Pro was made by the same people who did ITG, I figured people would play it more than they do now. Absolutely no one ever played Pro when it was at Putt-Putt, they would just stick to stomping with ITG.

Is it just too different? Not popular enough so you can do baller shoutouts? No custom songs?
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Re: This game

Post by chocobojoe » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:40 am

No, they just suck at it cause they don't know how to play 5-panel which means they can't flex their giant e-wang by posting scores on the internet.

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Re: This game

Post by Fluffyumpkins » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:49 am

FX cabs have laggy monitors and crappy speakers.
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