new to pump
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Jason Dread
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Don't go there. Come down to X-Scape (you're a Bloomy, right?) and try it sometime. I actually feel that PIU is easier overall than ITG overall (mainly because the steps *are* better choreographed), but even I feel LIADZ2 is ZOMG IT'S HARDZ0RZ (+- l33t). Let's not even start with the fact that 90% of the civilized world finds ITG less challenging to begin with...dance1005 wrote:Wow. Honestly, I'm not impressed AT ALL. Are you kidding me? This is the song that everybody's like ZOMG IT'S HARDZ0RZ? Maybe it just looks easier than it is, but half the stuff on ITG is harder than that...
-Dan
Wero and the other Mexicans in those videos will make ANY PIU song seem easy. But go ahead and try it. It ought to be cake and teddy grahams for you since ITG is so ungodly hard compared to PIU.dance1005 wrote:I would understand your argument about the skill of the player, but if you had seen the video, you wouldn't be saying that. All you can really see is the screen...the players are two dark, half-visible blobs on the right of the screen. And I don't even think you can see their feet.
-Dan
Yea, I'm like Mother Teresa, except I pwn.
...cake and teddy grahams...FLAKK wrote:amusing stuff that makes me laugh
...basket full of kittens and rainbows...
Oh FLAKK, your metaphors slay me! How much more cleverocity can one man have? Can the IndyDDR public withstand such a comic onslaught?
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IxI I skate IxI
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Pheonixguy
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Pheonixguy
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV0MOtsd ... rch=liadz2
This one you can see the person... and it looks scary!
This one you can see the person... and it looks scary!
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SoDeepPolaris
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Those are the another steps, the earlier posted vid was the crazy steps.Pheonixguy wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV0MOtsd ... rch=liadz2
This one you can see the person... and it looks scary!
I really love CS:GO's 64 tick servers.
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Pheonixguy
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oh, still...
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BakaOrochi
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The nightmare is pretty rough.
dance1005: I can understand what you mean by you don't see why people are like OMGLIADZ2 IS LIKE WTFROFL, especially based on those videoes.
The Crazy doesn't seem as hard as some people put it out to be until you hit the ending, and that ending really is killer (one of our locals isn't exactly WPF ready, but he's 97-99% expert ITGer and pretty damn good at Pump and he comboed the entire first half on his first try until the violin part, then his bar fell like no other, all the way through the end). If it doesn't look hard, try it. The amount of twisting you have to do at that speed is ridiculous.
The Another CZ steps don't seem incredibly impressive either on video, but I'd have to see it in person...which is one reason I hate when people ask me "OMG HAVE YOU SEEN THE LIADZ2 ANOTHER NM STEPS???" Nothing really looks that hard to me on screen (mostly because people use really shi++y cameras with horrible framerate, or don't know how to keep cameras steady), so I avoid watching those kinds of videoes.
dance1005: I can understand what you mean by you don't see why people are like OMGLIADZ2 IS LIKE WTFROFL, especially based on those videoes.
The Crazy doesn't seem as hard as some people put it out to be until you hit the ending, and that ending really is killer (one of our locals isn't exactly WPF ready, but he's 97-99% expert ITGer and pretty damn good at Pump and he comboed the entire first half on his first try until the violin part, then his bar fell like no other, all the way through the end). If it doesn't look hard, try it. The amount of twisting you have to do at that speed is ridiculous.
The Another CZ steps don't seem incredibly impressive either on video, but I'd have to see it in person...which is one reason I hate when people ask me "OMG HAVE YOU SEEN THE LIADZ2 ANOTHER NM STEPS???" Nothing really looks that hard to me on screen (mostly because people use really shi++y cameras with horrible framerate, or don't know how to keep cameras steady), so I avoid watching those kinds of videoes.
Ok, I just (finally) played LIADZ2 CZ, and for the record it is "fucking hard".
In fact, I would have easily failed it if it weren't for the gratuitous amount of free perfects in the holds.
The beginning isn't that bad. I pretty much combo'd it with the exception of a couple random things (which, given that I'd never actually stepped out the chart before, isn't suprising). The turny hold section is annoying since it actually has full spins in it (which you won't want to do at that speed), but it isn't bad. You'll get a couple misses unless you actually do all the turns, but nothing that'll destroy your bar.
Afterwards are a couple of crazy diagonal (as in how they would be displayed on the screen - 1/2 of an m-run) turns at high speed. You can BS your way through them without getting raped too badly, but I can't turn myself 180 degrees that fast (and I'm pretty fast...). I believe I just barely had a bar coming out of these (with a full bar going in).
After that is a OMGWTFBBQ set of turns that include double panel taps. This completely and utterly destroyed my bar. I believe I was actually hitting about half the steps with the balance being split about 50/50 between bads and misses. Those turns are insane. I could pull them off at about 2/3 the speed, but at that speed I simply cannot move my entire body that fast. I think there were probably a few in there that have never been used before, at least not on any chart I've played.
In my opinion it is indeed harder than Dignity CZ (I can B Dignity CZ fairly reliably), though I've only played it once. Total perfect count was over 900...with over 100 misses. That's a LOT of steps, even when you consider that there's probably a couple hundred in holds. It's definately harder than Cannon-D, as well. Deserving of a 21? I'm not quite sure on that one...
Turn wise, it blows anything I've ever seen on ITG completely away. The ITG/DDR stage layout doesn't allow for quite as many different turns, but this is still way harder. It doesn't have the "monkey run amok in an insane asylum" jumps that Roxor seems to like to make things "hard", but the double taps make up for that, especially when combined with the turns.
This thing definately isn't "cake and teddy grahms".
In fact, I would have easily failed it if it weren't for the gratuitous amount of free perfects in the holds.
The beginning isn't that bad. I pretty much combo'd it with the exception of a couple random things (which, given that I'd never actually stepped out the chart before, isn't suprising). The turny hold section is annoying since it actually has full spins in it (which you won't want to do at that speed), but it isn't bad. You'll get a couple misses unless you actually do all the turns, but nothing that'll destroy your bar.
Afterwards are a couple of crazy diagonal (as in how they would be displayed on the screen - 1/2 of an m-run) turns at high speed. You can BS your way through them without getting raped too badly, but I can't turn myself 180 degrees that fast (and I'm pretty fast...). I believe I just barely had a bar coming out of these (with a full bar going in).
After that is a OMGWTFBBQ set of turns that include double panel taps. This completely and utterly destroyed my bar. I believe I was actually hitting about half the steps with the balance being split about 50/50 between bads and misses. Those turns are insane. I could pull them off at about 2/3 the speed, but at that speed I simply cannot move my entire body that fast. I think there were probably a few in there that have never been used before, at least not on any chart I've played.
In my opinion it is indeed harder than Dignity CZ (I can B Dignity CZ fairly reliably), though I've only played it once. Total perfect count was over 900...with over 100 misses. That's a LOT of steps, even when you consider that there's probably a couple hundred in holds. It's definately harder than Cannon-D, as well. Deserving of a 21? I'm not quite sure on that one...
Turn wise, it blows anything I've ever seen on ITG completely away. The ITG/DDR stage layout doesn't allow for quite as many different turns, but this is still way harder. It doesn't have the "monkey run amok in an insane asylum" jumps that Roxor seems to like to make things "hard", but the double taps make up for that, especially when combined with the turns.
This thing definately isn't "cake and teddy grahms".
A normality test:
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It's extremely tough to compare the two because they derrive their difficulty from completely different means.
LIADZ2 is turn hell. Seriously, it is. Spinning your body around 180 degrees in 90msec is HARD no matter how physically fit you are. That of course presumes you can read and attempt to excute the turn in the first place.
VerTex^2 has crazy (I'd say non-sensical, but anyway) tempo changes, large numbers of mines (which, if they were pump mines, would kill anybody), and randomly placed jumps. If you can move that fast, the turns are downright EASY (hell, there are hardly any turns in it that aren't forced by freezes). The challenge is simply moving your feet that fast. With the mines and tempo changes removed (nomines,C500 or whatever), it seems to compare roughly with Moonlight in terms of difficulty. Moonlight is an 18. I can A Moonlight with regularity, but I cannot stage break anything past the middle. For reference, I can B Dignity (a 20) fairly regularly, but I have never A'd it due to the triples (hands, but way too fast for them) and the M-run.
I'd almost like to do a controlled experiment to see which really is "harder". Get a couple good pump players and a couple good ITG players and trade off songs (all players play all songs). The issue is that I don't know anybody with an ITG2 cabinet that's worth playing on that'll turn off autofail completely (so that you can get a results screen from VerTex^2). If anything, I'd just be interested to know how I'd score on the harder ITG songs. I tend to not play them since all ITG machines seem to have autofail on, or at least fail end of song. Well, that and the fact that I play ITG maybe once every 2 months...
Realize that when somebody says they C'd a song on Pump, that almost certainly means a fail on ITG. The scoring is quite a bit easier, possibly to adjust for the fact that there are so many more hard charts. Also, most Pump machines have stage break (autofail) off - if it were on, things would be a lot harder since the autofail on pump is about the same as DDR with the difficulty turned all the way up.
The two games play so much differently that it's REALLY hard to compare. Pump has a shitton of different turns, many of which haven't been used yet or are used on just a few charts. This is due to the additional panel and "panel in the center" stage layout. DDR/ITG doesn't have as many turns and seems to rely on speed (fast or slow) for difficulty, especially DDR. ITG also uses mines heavily. Part of this may be historic in that DDR did not have speed mods nearly as early as Pump did.
Pump does have mines, but only on battle station and mission station. On battle station, they instantly remove a life. On mission station, they remove about 2/3 of your pass bar (stage break is always on for mission station). Hitting two in a row is an immediate fail. ITG mines are quite a bit more forgiving: it's only the same as missing an arrow.
Basically, I don't know how to compare the two other than getting a bunch of people to play both and doing some statistics. VerTex^2 is certainly hard, but so is LIADZ2. I will say that I don't personally care for the way Roxor handles their 12s and above in most cases - randomly placed jumps and insane tempo changes aren't my idea of fun, especially given the normally excellent choreography seen on most pump charts. 9-11 seems to be where Roxor makes decent stepcharts. That's not to say Andamiro doesn't have their share of craptacular stepcharts that were intended to be hard (Slam CZ, anybody?).
And I just noticed that, for some strange reason, there are no (normal length) crazy steps rated 19...
LIADZ2 is turn hell. Seriously, it is. Spinning your body around 180 degrees in 90msec is HARD no matter how physically fit you are. That of course presumes you can read and attempt to excute the turn in the first place.
VerTex^2 has crazy (I'd say non-sensical, but anyway) tempo changes, large numbers of mines (which, if they were pump mines, would kill anybody), and randomly placed jumps. If you can move that fast, the turns are downright EASY (hell, there are hardly any turns in it that aren't forced by freezes). The challenge is simply moving your feet that fast. With the mines and tempo changes removed (nomines,C500 or whatever), it seems to compare roughly with Moonlight in terms of difficulty. Moonlight is an 18. I can A Moonlight with regularity, but I cannot stage break anything past the middle. For reference, I can B Dignity (a 20) fairly regularly, but I have never A'd it due to the triples (hands, but way too fast for them) and the M-run.
I'd almost like to do a controlled experiment to see which really is "harder". Get a couple good pump players and a couple good ITG players and trade off songs (all players play all songs). The issue is that I don't know anybody with an ITG2 cabinet that's worth playing on that'll turn off autofail completely (so that you can get a results screen from VerTex^2). If anything, I'd just be interested to know how I'd score on the harder ITG songs. I tend to not play them since all ITG machines seem to have autofail on, or at least fail end of song. Well, that and the fact that I play ITG maybe once every 2 months...
Realize that when somebody says they C'd a song on Pump, that almost certainly means a fail on ITG. The scoring is quite a bit easier, possibly to adjust for the fact that there are so many more hard charts. Also, most Pump machines have stage break (autofail) off - if it were on, things would be a lot harder since the autofail on pump is about the same as DDR with the difficulty turned all the way up.
The two games play so much differently that it's REALLY hard to compare. Pump has a shitton of different turns, many of which haven't been used yet or are used on just a few charts. This is due to the additional panel and "panel in the center" stage layout. DDR/ITG doesn't have as many turns and seems to rely on speed (fast or slow) for difficulty, especially DDR. ITG also uses mines heavily. Part of this may be historic in that DDR did not have speed mods nearly as early as Pump did.
Pump does have mines, but only on battle station and mission station. On battle station, they instantly remove a life. On mission station, they remove about 2/3 of your pass bar (stage break is always on for mission station). Hitting two in a row is an immediate fail. ITG mines are quite a bit more forgiving: it's only the same as missing an arrow.
Basically, I don't know how to compare the two other than getting a bunch of people to play both and doing some statistics. VerTex^2 is certainly hard, but so is LIADZ2. I will say that I don't personally care for the way Roxor handles their 12s and above in most cases - randomly placed jumps and insane tempo changes aren't my idea of fun, especially given the normally excellent choreography seen on most pump charts. 9-11 seems to be where Roxor makes decent stepcharts. That's not to say Andamiro doesn't have their share of craptacular stepcharts that were intended to be hard (Slam CZ, anybody?).
And I just noticed that, for some strange reason, there are no (normal length) crazy steps rated 19...
A normality test:
+++ATH
If you are no longer connected to the internet, you need to apply more wax to your modem: it'll make it go faster.
If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
+++ATH
If you are no longer connected to the internet, you need to apply more wax to your modem: it'll make it go faster.
If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.