Are HD gaming consoles truly HD?

Discussion of other non-rhythm/music games

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Amp Divorax
Heavy
Heavy
Posts: 2922
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:34 pm
Location: Near some arcade place that has the same initials as Drum and Bass

Are HD gaming consoles truly HD?

Post by Amp Divorax » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:57 am

Ok, the next gen consoles have been out for a while and I figure I should talk about this since it's kinda really bugged me. Both the 360 and the PS3 promised HD quality at 1080i/p with games running at 60 fps. The reality though is that with a couple of exceptions (Of note being Unreal Engine 3 based games) most of the games simply didn't deliver. Metal Gear Solid 4 will only run at 720p, GTA4 runs at 720p on the 360 and 640p on the PS3, Halo 3 was only at 640p on the 360 despite promises of 1080p at 60 fps. First and foremost, it is safe to consider any game running under 720p to be sub-HD at best as it's not one of the 2 standard modes. (480p is considered Enhanced Definition, not High Definition.) The one thing though that really does bother me is that the DDR Universe series only runs at 720p and doesn't even pull off 60 fps yet Stepmania can pull off 1080p60 on a 3 ghz single core PC with a Geforce 6 videocard.

With this in mind, I am inclined to believe that despite how powerful both of these consoles are, that they are not truly HD capable and if anything more sub-HD games will be released unless companies spend the time necessary to better optimize games. Something else that is hurting things are the PS3 game install requirements and Xbox 360's Hard Drive options being extremely disengenious at best. (Espically since Microsoft introduced the idea of having a hard drive in a console standard.) Most gamestop vendors say that the Hard Drives are only needed for hardcore live users and movie downloaders. The reality is though that since Microsoft is making full Xbox games (which will be 1-4 gigs depending on the game) available for download online the Hard Drive will come even more of a requirement than before.

So what are the thoughts of those on this forum?
Memorable 2016 quotes:
Ho wrote:You can break arcade games and I will fix YOU!

User avatar
chocobojoe
Heavy
Heavy
Posts: 2455
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:43 pm
Location: Fort Wayne

Re: Are HD gaming consoles truly HD?

Post by chocobojoe » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:25 am

I need to get an HDTV before I truly care, but I agree that any new game running under 720p is pretty stupid. I don't know how to actually test the framerate on PS3 games, but I could guess some of the games I've played ran at 60fps (GT5: P, Ratchet & Clank Future) but I know other games don't (Enchanted Arms, Dynasty Warriors: Gundam)
GT5: P only uses full 1080p on the garage/home screens, during events it's only 720p. I haven't come across any games personally that are complete 1080p. From what I've heard, there's not much of a difference between 1080i and 720p, but of course 1080p is better than both.
I think within the next year or two, when game companies start optimizing their game engines more (like the Unreal Engine 3) and taking the time we might see more 1080p games. Most companies must think they can get by with just 720p (and for the most part, yeah it's fine)

User avatar
lgolem
Heavy
Heavy
Posts: 2888
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:45 am
Location: Bloomington

Re: Are HD gaming consoles truly HD?

Post by lgolem » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:19 am

am I the only one who can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p? I have seen several great 720p tvs, and seen 2 1080p (all in home not floor models at best buy, these were at friend's houses running blu-ray movies and such) and I can't tell the differnece between the 2, I think like Joe said, they probably think they can get away with 720p which I am not surprised, 720p looks sharper than my big tube tv running on S-video.

To quote George Carlin: HD TV is bringing us a sharper, clearer image of SHIT!

User avatar
chocobojoe
Heavy
Heavy
Posts: 2455
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:43 pm
Location: Fort Wayne

Re: Are HD gaming consoles truly HD?

Post by chocobojoe » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:08 pm

I think the big problem is, which Amp pretty much mentioned, is that they haven't figured out how to optimize the 1080p resolution to run at a constant 60 fps during normal gameplay. It works for stuff where there's barely anything happening (like GT5: P garage) but it probably lags when there's a lot of stuff on the screen (like GT5: P races)
It's likely we won't see absolute true 1080p games until the next generation of systems, but we can always hope they'll get it figured out on this generation.

User avatar
WhiteDragon
Heavy
Heavy
Posts: 1312
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:04 am
Location: North of Indy
Contact:

Re: Are HD gaming consoles truly HD?

Post by WhiteDragon » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:15 pm

lgolem wrote:am I the only one who can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p?
Yes. :P

While I will agree that 1080p and 720p are not remotely near as differentiable as the jump from 480i to 720p, but there is definitely a difference.

As far as whether or not next gen consoles are truly HD, I don't really care at the moment. Sonic The Hedgehog looks just fine on my LCD. :roll:
Original Sin wrote:Besides, this is IndyDDR...honestly. What do you expect?

User avatar
Amp Divorax
Heavy
Heavy
Posts: 2922
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:34 pm
Location: Near some arcade place that has the same initials as Drum and Bass

Re: Are HD gaming consoles truly HD?

Post by Amp Divorax » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:22 pm

I would have no problem if the games were just 720p60 as that would make sense. The issue that I have though is that alot of games can't even pull that off. (Gaylo 3 can't even run at 30 fps consistently which is why I call the engine and design pure garbage!) Alot of games fail to pull off 60 fps which there is simply no excuse for in my eyes. (Some games like Command and Conquer 3 was kept at 30 fps to make it look a little more movielike with the graphics they used so I can forgive lower framerates if they are done in that intention. However, I think that game is also 1080p as well as my desktop can go at that resolution with it perfectly.)
Memorable 2016 quotes:
Ho wrote:You can break arcade games and I will fix YOU!

User avatar
Ho
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5645
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:26 am
Location: The Ho-House

Re: Are HD gaming consoles truly HD?

Post by Ho » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:28 am

WhiteDragon wrote:
lgolem wrote:am I the only one who can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p?
Yes. :P

While I will agree that 1080p and 720p are not remotely near as differentiable as the jump from 480i to 720p, but there is definitely a difference.
It also really depends on how you were comparing. If you're watching 480 or 720 content on a 720 and a 1080 display, you probably won't notice all that much difference--if any. If you're looking at a screen size smaller than...50-ish, you might not notice all that much difference either. Heck, at < 20", you might not see a whole lot of difference between 480 and 1080!

To a large extent, HDTVs are sold with the same model as PCs and digital cameras. Marketers like to put bigr numbers on the box to impress you, but if you don't have the knowledge and other equipment to take advantage of the big numbers, they really not all they're hyped up to be.

Is 1080 more than 720? Sure. Will it make a difference in your experience? Maybe...and it will be dependent on factors not included in the box.
Image

User avatar
chocobojoe
Heavy
Heavy
Posts: 2455
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:43 pm
Location: Fort Wayne

Re: Are HD gaming consoles truly HD?

Post by chocobojoe » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:21 am

If you're watching anything in 480 on a 720 or 1080 display, it looks blurry and shitty usually. That's from my personal experience. It's like zooming in on the picture, so everything is kinda stretched, even though it tries to make up for it with filters, but they really don't work that well cause they can only do so much.
When you're playing stuff that's meant to be in 720 on a 480i display, even a large one, text is often blurry and runs together (because the tv is forcing the larger resolution to squish down to fit the display). There's a noticeable difference between even a 40" SD display and a 19" HD display.

Post Reply