Sperg Burg Arcade

Discussion of arcades and other gaming locations with music/rhythm games

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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by DAVE101 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:33 pm

No, I saw it leave on a pick up truck like 2 years ago. I tried to follow it, but lost him at a light.
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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by Merk » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:20 am

MonMotha wrote:It's not like it's hard to make a machine run Extreme these days. It's just so played out that what's the point?
Whoa whoa whoa thems is fightin' words!

No, I saw it leave on a pick up truck like 2 years ago. I tried to follow it, but lost him at a light.
Dang, I wonder where that machine went? I think it was a Shaffer cabinet so it probably went to some other arcade somewhere.
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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by Riot » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:12 pm

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^^ Twilight Zone. I can get good scores still! Yay. Better than I ever used to do for the most part on a lot of the easier songs quite honestly.

So far, however, my main problem so far is on the hard stuff, I can't really move my feet fast enough because my mishmash of replacement screws seem to stick up a bit much and I catch my shoes on them if I'm not coming down straight (like stomping). I guess this means I should look into counter-sinking, but it also could be fixed with different (original) screws? The ones that came rusted seemed to have rounded but much flatter tops, and the ones I got were either kinda thick pan heads it seems or flat heads that don't seem to screw alllll the way down, so it kinda catches on your foot a bit.

All the sensors work, but if I'm leaning against the bar and hitting the up arrow at the bottom of it, a lot of times I don't exert enough pressure for it to trigger I guess... I'd like to be able to have them be a bit more sensitive on lighter touches so I can play hard stuff without exerting all my energy making sure to come down hard enough or in the center of the arrow. The foam on the inside of a lot of the pads seems to be kinda deteriorating (was there foam originally? it seems like a lot of them have a light layer of some thin foamy material... dunno if it's original or modded). New panels probably wouldn't hurt as they are a little bit concave, but I'm not sure how much that would cost to replace all of them and get good quality ones at that.

Any idea if those original McMaster-Carr screws you mentioned before Brandon would solve the whole "catching shoe" issue, or do you have any suggestions/precautions about the whole countersinking thing I've seen people talking about?
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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by MonMotha » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:39 pm

The screws from McMaster-Carr have a slightly larger diameter head than the OEM ones, but the height is essentially the same. The countersink mod will definitely alter the play experience from the original, but if you prefer it that way, it's your machine to do what you want with of course.

There is foam on top of the L-brackets from the factory. It's crucial to the proper operation of the system. People frequently scrape it off and replace it. This usually helps for a little bit, but most people who do this don't use foam that holds up well and the result quickly deteriorates to something worse than what they had before. Done right, replacing it can be a useful thing. I'm not 100% sure what the original stuff is. It seems to be some kind of neoprene or similar foam rubber. I can probably get you in touch with a shop that can have some pieces of something probably close to correct custom-cut for you if you want, but it'll be spendy. Most people who do this just go grab something from the arts and crafts store and cut it with a pair of scissors. The shape isn't critical, but the thickness and especially material kinda are.

You can get new panels at reasonable cost. Something like $150 for the whole stage. Depending on where you get them from, you may have to cut them down a bit to get them to fit (apparently the people who make the knock-off replacements don't bother to check if they even fit). The artwork screen printing is also nowhere near as good on the 3rd-party replacements. They seem to work fine, though.

For sensors, just call up Betson. You won't like their price, but the product actually works, unlike the crap from the most of the "spare parts" outfits in e.g. China, and they usually will actually be pretty comparable once you factor in all the shipping and payment processing fees for the others.

You may also look into replacing the little "stops" that the panels rest on in the corners depending on the wear. It's some sort of hard rubber plastic material that I can't identify. The spare parts shops in China sell replacements, but I have no idea what the quality is like. Probably not up to OEM standards.

All the mods in the world won't make a heavily used stage play like a new one. Replacement of key components seems to be the most effective. The original design is actually pretty good.
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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by DAVE101 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:28 am

Chris has played up to 15s+ on foam modded pads consistently for three years to no ill effects. The pads have never been this good, and it's with $0.37 walmart foam and electrical tape.
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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by MonMotha » Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:30 pm

Perhaps I'm just more picky about long-term operation than your average ITG junkie...
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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by SoDeepPolaris » Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:35 pm

MonMotha wrote:Perhaps I'm just more picky about long-term operation than your average ITG junkie...
What other long term operations would a pad need to focus on other than accuracy? Just curious...
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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by MonMotha » Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:44 pm

In commercial duty, you definitely care more about reliability. Sorry to burst the ITG kids' bubble, but revenue is more important, and revenue comes predominately from casual players. In a home environment, this is less (not) important, though I find I work on them enough without having to constantly pull things apart and move some mod around because it's unseated itself or whatever. Up to you of course. I'm quite different from most apparent owners of these things who seem to just want them to play Dragonforce as well (and cheaply) as possible with little regard for anything else.

To be clear, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't replace the stuff. It's not like it's made of unobtainium or can only be found deep within the depths of Mt. Fuji. Just don't half-ass it if you want to be satisfied with the results and not have to futz with it again. The nature of the process is that you can't really revert to what you had before once you've done it.
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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by DAVE101 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:19 pm

I don't think I understand your answer. What's not reliable about the mod and how does that relate to casual vs home play? "Casual play" results in 0.1x the volume as "serius play" in terms of total stepping.

If you are talking about newbiez stompin the pads and Ho doing knee drops causing you to have to re-mod the pads, then yeah I agree. You may have to readjust the mod a couple times especially during the first few weeks (as the generic foam compresses over time). Do you have an opinion on just layering electrical/duct tape on top? This has become more predominant in the community as it stays in place better and won't slide out of place.
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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by MonMotha » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:20 am

I think using a proper adhesive to hold the foam to the bracket is the key. I'd be worried about anything as gummy as duct tape or electrical tape causing the system to bind up over time, and I can't imagine it would be fun or easy to clean. The original appears to be a pressure sensitive adhesive layer that's cut along with the foam (i.e. the foam is adhesive backed). You may have some luck using some forms of weather stripping if you can find it in the right width and thickness. The length is of course not overly critical. Taping over the whole thing shouldn't be necessary, let alone advisable.

Yes, if you have it in a home, you won't probably have the reliability concerns of an arcade. What I was saying is that I don't want to have to screw with things constantly, so I like having things "commercial grade". Most "home use" owners don't care, and that's their prerogative. In general, I find if something is going to be unreliable, it's going to be unreliable regardless of the amount or type of duty it sees. Usually there's some sort of action that has a high degree of causing issues, so if that EVER happens, you see problems. Normal wear and tear of course is not generally a concern in a home use only environment as there's just not enough use to cause much of it.

I'm basing this off seeing forum posts where people have done this and initially claimed great success only to come back a few weeks later with a "well crap, now it sucks worse than ever" situation that they have to deal with. Again, the key is careful execution. In particular, I'd caution against going overboard and messing with the thickness a ton. The panel should NOT be touching the bottom of the corner brackets, and it should take some (small) amount of travel to actuate. In the resting state, the L-bracket should not be compressing the sensor at all - it should just be resting on top of it. If you go too far, you'll start getting cross-triggering issues or sticking inputs, which seems to be the most common complaint I've read after doing this "mod". If you simply put in something close to what was there before it got worn down (which I guess makes it more of a "repair" than a "mod"), it should work fine of course. Simply slapping some mounting tape down on top of what's already there, in particular, is probably a recipe for bad things (and I've seen this done, generally with bad results).

Given how the system works, I'm sure it can make a substantial difference in some cases. The system isn't exactly precision fabricated, but some of the tolerances get surprisingly small. Aside from protecting the artwork on the bottom of the panels (which I care about but most people seem not to), the foam layer absorbs some of the tolerance stack-up issues.

I, however, have found it largely unnecessary, but perhaps my machine simply didn't have the problem others have seen. Replacing the panels with ones that weren't worn down (on both sides) did wonders, and with strategically placed new sensors it plays phenomenally well. While I've never had the opportunity to play on a new DDR stage, I'd say it plays about as well as a new PIU stage, which I have played on.
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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by Ho » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:10 am

DAVE101 wrote:and Ho doing knee drops
I'd just like to say that I have never done a knee drop. My knees are bad enough without me intentionally pounding them into solid objects.
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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by SoDeepPolaris » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:22 pm

Ho wrote:
DAVE101 wrote:and Ho doing knee drops
I'd just like to say that I have never done a knee drop. My knees are bad enough without me intentionally pounding them into solid objects.
That's what she said.

She has arthritis...
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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by Ho » Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:20 pm

I don't think my knees are quite that bad...I'm just not sure where DAVE101 gots the idea to use that as a stereotypical activity for me.
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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by DAVE101 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:59 pm

How do you call yourself a freestyler?
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Re: Sperg Burg Arcade

Post by SoDeepPolaris » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:14 am

DAVE101 wrote:How do you call yourself a freestyler?
He uses the word in a sentence.
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