Great X Scape, College Mall, Bloomington
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Amp Divorax
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- Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:34 pm
- Location: Near some arcade place that has the same initials as Drum and Bass
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WhiteDragon
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- Location: North of Indy
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SplashBeats
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- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:59 am
as someone who runs a slightly illegitimate gold setup at home, the timing on everything at great-x-scape felt pretty consistent with what i was used to. i'm not terribly used to the ASC buttons, but i managed to swing an A on second heaven [h] (which is what i have on my setup) so i think everything is alright. any inconsistency you guys are picking up is mostly just a difference between AC and CS timing, which there isn't much you can do anything about.
lab, however, is profoundly screwed up.
someone mentioned some weird sound issues with north, which i think could be because of some sound problems with one of the speakers on the left side. i let monmotha know about this at the tournament, but one of the left speakers likes to suddenly drop and raise in volume. because there are like 4 speakers on that side, i can't really tell if it is cutting out completely or not, but there is definitely a noticeable difference. if you suddenly notice a song being louder, its because that speaker turned back on. i found that leaving the volume slider at about 80% up, while making the song overall quieter, mostly negates any ear-piercing (somebody screaaaaam!!) from that speaker suddenly kicking in.
lab, however, is profoundly screwed up.
someone mentioned some weird sound issues with north, which i think could be because of some sound problems with one of the speakers on the left side. i let monmotha know about this at the tournament, but one of the left speakers likes to suddenly drop and raise in volume. because there are like 4 speakers on that side, i can't really tell if it is cutting out completely or not, but there is definitely a noticeable difference. if you suddenly notice a song being louder, its because that speaker turned back on. i found that leaving the volume slider at about 80% up, while making the song overall quieter, mostly negates any ear-piercing (somebody screaaaaam!!) from that speaker suddenly kicking in.
I'm not entirely sure, but I think one of the speakers may be wired up out of phase with the others. I checked this really quickly right before I left but wasn't able to make a positive decision, so I didn't move any wires.
One speaker being out of phase could easily cause it to sound like the volume is going in and out as the music changes. Given the nature of the wiring, it's likely to be the side speaker. I'll take a look at it the next time I'm in the area.
One speaker being out of phase could easily cause it to sound like the volume is going in and out as the music changes. Given the nature of the wiring, it's likely to be the side speaker. I'll take a look at it the next time I'm in the area.
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If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
OH NOES RIOT! I was gonna go pray beet too. 
Anyway I think I contribute a little to this whole subject. Now I don't know everything for sure about this but I think its pretty accurate. Starting with basics, since the hardward after 9th is different It's not gonna run the same on the TV as 8th would. I don't know 8th and previous work better with the plasma TVs than post-8th, or if the timing was even the way it should have been on 8th, but I do know that the gold machine is made to run with a normal TV and not HD or plasma of any kind. This caueses a "lag" in the visual aspect of the game. Where we are normally used to hitting the notes (the red line) is lagged, so you have to hit the key when its visually higher to make it "hit" when its right on time (on the red line). You're hitting it when it is actually on the red line according to the hardware, but the TV is showing it as not at the red line yet because it is lagged. Yes it is the way for all songs and its isn't just lab. The reason you noticed it on lab was because the notes we're scrolling much faster, the distance between the red line and where u hit it was higher. With slower songs that distance is smaller so it visually doesn't seem to have as much lag, but it's still there. This is why sudden+, and slower speed mods seem to make it more accurate. The only way to actually fix it is with Hidden+. I've found with a moderately fast scroll rate, Hidden+ 75 works for me, but anywhere in the range of 50-80 can be pretty close. Now I'm not sure about the sound. I can't tell if the sounds coming out of the speakers or the TV, but it seem's when I'm playing what I'm actually hitting is pretty close to the sound. It seem's in sync but I'm not positive.
Edit: If you're getting confused with the difference between early and late. When everyone at the tournament was reffering to the timing being "early", people meant that they had to hit the keys "earlier" than they were used to hitting them. I think what Ho and Brandon we're thinking is that this machine was regestering their hit "earlier" than when they thought they were hitting them. In fact its the opposite. They are correct, there is no way the machine can anticipate your attack. If it was doing this then that means the keys were being hit before you hit them. Visually that means the buttons were being registered higher than when they were hit. This would mean you would have to hit the keys "after" you were used to hitting them (BELOW the red line). Just to clarify the difference here so no one is confused. I don't know which is actually "early" but when I refer to early I mean I have to hit the keys higher than I am used to which is a result of lag. Counter-intutive but yeah..
If you don't want to read that my overall suggestion. Try Hidden+ with a decent scroll rate, not to slow. Find a good spot for your timing between 50-80. I found 75 to work very well.
Oh yes, Jeremy said something about changing the "judge difficuly" on the machine to help fix the timing. Now I don't know what he changed, he probably just changed the difficuly of the machine from 5 to 4, but I'm pretty sure theres no way to actually change the judge difficulty to make the timing window larger. If he did change the difficuly, it should be on 4 anyway.
Edit: sorry for the long post =/, but i think worth reading, if u care...
Anyway I think I contribute a little to this whole subject. Now I don't know everything for sure about this but I think its pretty accurate. Starting with basics, since the hardward after 9th is different It's not gonna run the same on the TV as 8th would. I don't know 8th and previous work better with the plasma TVs than post-8th, or if the timing was even the way it should have been on 8th, but I do know that the gold machine is made to run with a normal TV and not HD or plasma of any kind. This caueses a "lag" in the visual aspect of the game. Where we are normally used to hitting the notes (the red line) is lagged, so you have to hit the key when its visually higher to make it "hit" when its right on time (on the red line). You're hitting it when it is actually on the red line according to the hardware, but the TV is showing it as not at the red line yet because it is lagged. Yes it is the way for all songs and its isn't just lab. The reason you noticed it on lab was because the notes we're scrolling much faster, the distance between the red line and where u hit it was higher. With slower songs that distance is smaller so it visually doesn't seem to have as much lag, but it's still there. This is why sudden+, and slower speed mods seem to make it more accurate. The only way to actually fix it is with Hidden+. I've found with a moderately fast scroll rate, Hidden+ 75 works for me, but anywhere in the range of 50-80 can be pretty close. Now I'm not sure about the sound. I can't tell if the sounds coming out of the speakers or the TV, but it seem's when I'm playing what I'm actually hitting is pretty close to the sound. It seem's in sync but I'm not positive.
Edit: If you're getting confused with the difference between early and late. When everyone at the tournament was reffering to the timing being "early", people meant that they had to hit the keys "earlier" than they were used to hitting them. I think what Ho and Brandon we're thinking is that this machine was regestering their hit "earlier" than when they thought they were hitting them. In fact its the opposite. They are correct, there is no way the machine can anticipate your attack. If it was doing this then that means the keys were being hit before you hit them. Visually that means the buttons were being registered higher than when they were hit. This would mean you would have to hit the keys "after" you were used to hitting them (BELOW the red line). Just to clarify the difference here so no one is confused. I don't know which is actually "early" but when I refer to early I mean I have to hit the keys higher than I am used to which is a result of lag. Counter-intutive but yeah..
If you don't want to read that my overall suggestion. Try Hidden+ with a decent scroll rate, not to slow. Find a good spot for your timing between 50-80. I found 75 to work very well.
Oh yes, Jeremy said something about changing the "judge difficuly" on the machine to help fix the timing. Now I don't know what he changed, he probably just changed the difficuly of the machine from 5 to 4, but I'm pretty sure theres no way to actually change the judge difficulty to make the timing window larger. If he did change the difficuly, it should be on 4 anyway.
Edit: sorry for the long post =/, but i think worth reading, if u care...
I know that the sound is coming out of the machine sound system, not any TV speakers. The TV speakers aren't even hooked up. The sound should be synced up just fine. There may be one speaker out of phase from the others, so I'll check that the next time I stop by. Being out of phase would'nt make it seem desynced, but would make it seem louder or softer, depending on what's going on with the music, and it would also ruin spatial effects in the music.
As for display sync, the old monitor was a RP-LCD. When I played in Japan (RED was current), it was still in use on many machines. Display sync seemed the same as the new direct view CRTs. I think what is happening is that the deinterlacer on the monitor cannot cope with the new signal as well as the old one and is doing something funny. There's actually some jerkiness to the motion at times.
I'll look into fixing the monitor lag the next time I'm in town, but that may be a while. It didn't seem too bad, really. The rest of the game is spot on, so it's still pretty playable unless you're the type who could play with the sound turned off and not notice.
The only setting I remember for difficulty is the overall game difficulty setting in Game Options. It is my recollection that this only changes the parameters for the life gauge and doesn't affect timing any. Personally, I don't care what this is set to. If the locals can come to a consensus as to how it should be set, feel free to ask somebody to set it for you.
As for display sync, the old monitor was a RP-LCD. When I played in Japan (RED was current), it was still in use on many machines. Display sync seemed the same as the new direct view CRTs. I think what is happening is that the deinterlacer on the monitor cannot cope with the new signal as well as the old one and is doing something funny. There's actually some jerkiness to the motion at times.
I'll look into fixing the monitor lag the next time I'm in town, but that may be a while. It didn't seem too bad, really. The rest of the game is spot on, so it's still pretty playable unless you're the type who could play with the sound turned off and not notice.
The only setting I remember for difficulty is the overall game difficulty setting in Game Options. It is my recollection that this only changes the parameters for the life gauge and doesn't affect timing any. Personally, I don't care what this is set to. If the locals can come to a consensus as to how it should be set, feel free to ask somebody to set it for you.
A normality test:
+++ATH
If you are no longer connected to the internet, you need to apply more wax to your modem: it'll make it go faster.
If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
+++ATH
If you are no longer connected to the internet, you need to apply more wax to your modem: it'll make it go faster.
If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
Yeah, I kinda fittled with the difficulty, it didn't actually seemed to affect the timing so I put it back on it's default.
I have no complaints about the machine it doesn't seem laggy or anything, but just letting you know brandon, every once in a while the board that is sitting by itself on the top shelf occasionally seems to go on the fritz and it won't take tokens, we usually shut down the machine, unplug the power to that circuit board and then hook it back up, sometimes it fixes it sometimes it doesn't. I don't know if you rushed while making it or something, I am just saying from the arcades perspective it seems like a part on the fritz that needs messing with. Might want to take a look at it when you come back here.
I have no complaints about the machine it doesn't seem laggy or anything, but just letting you know brandon, every once in a while the board that is sitting by itself on the top shelf occasionally seems to go on the fritz and it won't take tokens, we usually shut down the machine, unplug the power to that circuit board and then hook it back up, sometimes it fixes it sometimes it doesn't. I don't know if you rushed while making it or something, I am just saying from the arcades perspective it seems like a part on the fritz that needs messing with. Might want to take a look at it when you come back here.
Very well. Next time I'm down there, I'll just chuck 8th Style back in. This obviously doesn't work.
Whore it while you can, folks.
Whore it while you can, folks.
A normality test:
+++ATH
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+++ATH
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If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
This is a bit extreme of a reaction don't you think?MonMotha wrote:I'll just chuck 8th Style back in. This obviously doesn't work.
There is nothing really wrong with it, I notice zero lag issues, it seems fine to me, except the occassion messing with the board that is in there. I think it does VERY VERY well as good, way better than 8th style ever did.
Well, do the IO dropouts cause enough problems that you want me to do something about it? I got the impression that they were a major problem for you, and in that case it would just be best to yank the whole setup out.
A normality test:
+++ATH
If you are no longer connected to the internet, you need to apply more wax to your modem: it'll make it go faster.
If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
+++ATH
If you are no longer connected to the internet, you need to apply more wax to your modem: it'll make it go faster.
If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
Nooooooooooooo, Don't get the wrong idea! I the machine is well worth having and from talking to Jeremy today, they were just minor issues. It seems to me that the machine is working pretty well as of today. As for timing issues, with Hidden+, I have no problems at all with the timing, works just like as if I were playing normally.
About the spearkers I dunno if you were going off what I was saying or not, but I found the timing of the notes when you actually hit them line up perfectly with the sound. I figured the sound was coming out of the speakers because i figured it would probably lag if they were coming through the TV. So basically everything works fine for me. I can' play it without any problems.
About the spearkers I dunno if you were going off what I was saying or not, but I found the timing of the notes when you actually hit them line up perfectly with the sound. I figured the sound was coming out of the speakers because i figured it would probably lag if they were coming through the TV. So basically everything works fine for me. I can' play it without any problems.
More important is that the video no longer lags. Merk described it as "perfect".
Unfortunatley, all the high-score and state data did get blown away in the process. That sucks, but at least LAB, Logic Board, and Macho Gang are no longer the top songs on the machine :)
Unfortunatley, all the high-score and state data did get blown away in the process. That sucks, but at least LAB, Logic Board, and Macho Gang are no longer the top songs on the machine :)
A normality test:
+++ATH
If you are no longer connected to the internet, you need to apply more wax to your modem: it'll make it go faster.
If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.
+++ATH
If you are no longer connected to the internet, you need to apply more wax to your modem: it'll make it go faster.
If you find this funny, you're a nerd.
If neither of the above apply, you are normal. Congratulations.