New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by Merk » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:56 pm

But... But... But... Minimaid!
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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by Ho » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:08 pm

Minimaid is great! But, it doesn't make the stock DDR monitor VGA-compatible or a 14 year old DDR cabinet any less busted.
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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by Merk » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:37 pm

I think we're using different definitions of the word compatible, if you plug a minimaid into a PC and into the JAMMA harness of a DDR machine then you can get that sweet, sweet VGA video as long as your PC video card can output the right signal. Granted a 14 year old DDR machine is going to be busted to shit (much like my machine) but with a brand new set of sensors and some elbow grease you can fix that problem right up.

I can be mistaken though! Oftentimes I think the world works a certain way based off personal experience and I end up being completely wrong!

Regardless, you technically don't need the DDR monitor if you're going the minimaid route since you can just use any regular ol' computer monitor.
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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by Ho » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:04 pm

We are using different definitions but not of the word "compatible." We're using different definitions of VGA. I am using the correct one to refer to the specific, particular mode defined as VGA from the many that most video cards can produce. You appear to be using VGA to broadly define any signal that comes out of a video card--which is incorrect.

The "right signal" you refer to is, quite simply, NOT VGA. Minimaid just passes it along to the monitor and does nothing to make it any more or less VGA-compatible. You could connect to the video card with the "right signal" to the DDR monitor without Minimaid. But if you send an actual VGA signal to that monitor, it will not work. You'll probably get a distorted, doubled image.

If you put Minimaid into that mix, depending on the dip switch settings, it will detect that the signal is VGA and not compatible with the monitor and simply send nothing to it in an effort to prevent any damage from sending a VGA signal to a non-compatible monitor.
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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by Fluffyumpkins » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:08 pm

Getting hot in here.
Music is a special thing because everyone is wrong on everything but it all works out in the end and we all get high as shit.
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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by Ho » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:09 pm

Nah. But I do like to visualize you fanning yourself with your hand.
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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by MonMotha » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:19 pm

I think the issue at hand here is the overloading of the term "VGA". In the arcade world, it refers to 31kHz scanrate, which is going to usually mean ~480 lines progressive scan (I can't think of a reason to use the also-compatible 960i). To support this, you need a monitor that can handle that scanrate, and the stock DDR monitor (the Toshiba), while a pretty awesome monitor in many regards, cannot do it. The minimaid does not translate video scanrates/resolutions, so you'll need to provide compatible video at 15kHz (you could, if you enjoy tearing your hair out, put the monitor into 25kHz mode by moving a connector/jumper, which would let you use ~384 lines progressive scan).

"VGA" can also refer to a couple other things, especially outside arcade-land.

It can refer to the connector (high-density D-sub with 15 pins) i.e. the plug on the back of your computer. Obviously the minimaid has this connector. You can use a plan ol' straight-thru wired cable to connect the minimaid to your PC.

it can also refer to the signal level. PC "VGA" video is 0.7Vpp, while arcade standard video on JAMMA is historically ~3.3Vpp. The minimaid includes an amplifier to translate these signal levels. Note that most newer arcade monitors supporting VGA scanrates (31kHz) do have an input that accepts these PC-standard signal levels, and it's usually an HD15 connector for a direct connection to a PC since most newer arcade games are PC-based as you're probably aware. If you were to have a monitor with this connectivity, you should use it (bypassing the minimaid's video path) since it will result in slightly higher quality video. The amp on the minimaid is very good, but it can't make it look any better than a direct path of course.

TL;DR: The minimaid handles the physical connectivity as well as signal levels for compatibility with old/legacy arcade monitors, but it's up to you to provide a compatible resolution. For the Toshiba monitor that comes with DDR, this is 15kHz scanrate which means either ~240 lines progressive scan or ~480 lines interlace scan (60Hz refresh). You'll need some way to convince your PC to output this as most drivers flat out refuse without a lot of coaxing since this resolution is incompatible with almost all PC monitors. Soft15khz is common. There's also crtemudriver. If you use soft15khz, please use the custom resolution file included in the "care package". It looks better than soft15kHz's defaults. On Linux, a good old-fashioned modeline in your xorg.conf will do the trick, or you can do it on the fly using xrandr.
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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by Ho » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:57 pm

Thanks for the technical explanation. Your first paragraph is the point I was trying to make. :)
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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by Merk » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:41 am

Guys I plug my little VGA cable into the thingy and then the things works.

You both are passionate about this stuff and that's cool. Coming from a complete layman's perspective, if I have to use a VGA cable to deliver a video signal then it's a "VGA" connection and therefore a "VGA" signal. As you say it's not a real-ass VGA signal but the average dope isn't going to know the difference, they'll buy an ArcadeVGA video card, install Soft15k, plug everything in, and go about their merry way.



Here's what I should have said:
Ah! Welp, the beauty of using a PC is you do have the option of technically using any monitor you want. Really if you can gut the JAMMA harness and the pads out of a DDR cabinet then that's all you really need.
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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by MonMotha » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:08 pm

Merk wrote:they'll buy an ArcadeVGA video card, install Soft15k
If you use an ArcadeVGA, you do not need Soft15k. In fact, it will probably just cause trouble.
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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by jabbles » Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:59 am

I still never have, and probably never will, understand why someone would like DDR better. I mean, know your roots and all, but it just got boring. the fan based continuance of ITG is really the best part. I'm sure on that we will have to agree to disagree. I played DDR for years until ITG came out, then I would just maybe play it sometimes if it was the only thing around and with I was playing ITG instead.

anyway! so does anyone know the answer to my original question..is it still there? I guess maybe I'll try to go out there tomorrow or something.
You all lost me with the tech talk (I'm not ignorant, just not my field of expertise. :D) Basically...no one really WANTS to play ITG on a ddr machine. If I do that I might as well buy one of those new nice pads and use my big screen and a computer and save myself 2000 dollars...

Plus...I miss playing with folks at the arcade...getting old sucks man. I feel fat and elderly , and I want my video dancing game back!!

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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by Riot » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:46 am

My point was more about the customization. I have a DDR machine with Stepmania installed on it that has like 2000 custom songs, including two ITG packs with all of those songs. I could mod the pads pretty easily to feel more like ITG pads if I wanted. The "continuance" is always there because it just runs off Stepmania (or OpenITG) and I can put any new songs I want on whenever. Much better than any home pad solution.
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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by jabbles » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:36 pm

okay.....but not really because if I ran it from a pc I would still be using stepmania, so essentially it would be the same, and I could always add more stepfiles if I wanted....

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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by Riot » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:50 pm

er... what? I'm just trying to say you could recreate the ITG experience by using a PC in a cabinet and run OpenITG which is the same skins/songs/etc as normal ITG, with whatever other songs you wanted to add. What are you saying would be the same? Playing on a home pad? Because I'm not so sure about that. What kind of home pad could rival an arcade?
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Re: New ITG2 (dedicated cabinet) in Fishers/Noblesville

Post by MonMotha » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:11 pm

jabbles wrote:okay.....but not really because if I ran it from a pc I would still be using stepmania, so essentially it would be the same, and I could always add more stepfiles if I wanted....
ITG is just Stepmania (with some tweaks and a custom theme, all readily available) on a PC, if you're not aware.
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