VEGAN THREAD is ressurected 4 lulz

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Post by Fluffyumpkins » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:35 pm

Another common concept expressed by the dietetic fraternity is that high-protein diets predispose to osteoporosis by increasing the rate at which calcium is lost from the body. The reality is that several studies have found that high animal protein (e.g. meat and fish) consumption is associated with better bone density.
There is no shortage of doctors of medicine that claim the same thing is both good and bad. Much like any political debates, the facts have been so muddled who can tell exactly who is right and wrong.

Just as a personal reccomendation, don't give up on fish. The Omega-3 fatty acids are very beneficial to the cardiovascular system.

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Post by SoDeepPolaris » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:49 am

Fluffyumpkins wrote: Just as a personal reccomendation, don't give up on fish. The Omega-3 fatty acids are very beneficial to the cardiovascular system.
That's what flaxseed is for.
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Post by Original Sin » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:06 am

The main theory on meat is that the average cow or chicken has more than 100 different chemicals from pesticides to preservatives to antibiotics to steriods to rocket fuel.
Living in this age you are going to be exposed to toxins and chemicals regardless of what you eat. It's in the air, the soil, etc etc. As malictus pointed out, store bought plants also contain chemicals. The only way you're going to get away from encountering these toxins would be to move out to the middle of no where, grow your own plants and hunt your own game.

That aside, just because something contains something doesn't necessarily mean it's that bad. There are trace amounts of nasty things in all sorts of products, but what's important is how much of it you're encountering, and how often. Just about anything can kill you in a large enough dose, be it something like rocket fuel, or something deemed useful by society, like aspirin. ...Absinthe, for example, contains wormwood, which is toxic. However, unless you drink it all the time, it doesn't effect anything. Besides, you're more likely to have the ill-effects of it's high alcohol content, than those of the other things that are in it.

You can eat well, and feel good, without cutting out large parts of your diet. The most important thing is not to eat certain things in excess. So what if a steak contrains trace amount of toxic chemicals? Unless you're eating beef for every meal, every day, I don't think that's really going to amount to much, especially if you're primarily eating a balanced diet.

I just don't think you should stop eating meat because of what's in it...there's nasty stuff in everything, it's just part of life. Hell, you should see what's in the water. Yet still, millions of people live healthy lives, even in worse conditions than we have in the states. Some people have been living to see long lives throughout history, just as some do not.

I'm certainly not pro-vegatarian, but I have seen first hand the effects of eating a BAD diet. I lived primarily on fast food for a while...not a good idea. My stomach was upset a lot, and I was just lazy. These days I cook a lot of my own food, drink a lot of water, etc etc. I primarily eat meat, but I do mix in vegatables and fruit when I have the time...not the healthiest diet, but I feel loads better than I used to.....so I do stand for eating healthy.I Just don't think you have to take it to any kind of extreme to feel good and eat well.... ...but I will say this. If you can, avoid a lot of caffiene. That stuff fucked me up. I can't even begin to describe how good I feel when I manage to kick it from my system, and manage to stay awake long enough to manage said feelings. :shock:

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Post by BigBadOrc » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:17 am

Fluffyumpkins wrote:There is no shortage of doctors of medicine that claim the same thing is both good and bad. Much like any political debates, the facts have been so muddled who can tell exactly who is right and wrong.
Well, I agree.. this whole debate is riddled with political motivations. Why would the USDA and corporations lie? Duh, money. A powerful motivating force. Why would vegans lie? Because they hate animal cruelty. A powerful motivational force, but I'm not sure that it would cause them to completely fabricate scientific data. So I don't doubt that there's BS on both sides. But in any case, I think that something published in a scientific journal that is subject to peer review by scientists could certainly be trusted.

Regulation is my biggest concern with the US government. I think it is more important than any other political issue, because corporations are responsible for a lot more than just our food. There are a whole bunch of companies out there trying to make money, and I see the government as having the role of regulating these companies and keeping them honest. If the government doesn't keep them honest, then all the honest ones will go bankrupt. Imagine playing a game of soccer with no regulations or rules whatsoever. One team is honest and still tries to play by the rules and respect the safety of the other team. The other team pulls out machine guns and shoots the honest team and then scores 20 goals. If the government doesn't regulate companies, everything that's good goes to hell real quick.

The government has no business accepting money in any form, including campaign contributions, from any private entity. We need a better system of learning about candidates then short TV ads and posters everywhere. The government is supposed to protect the people, not protect the corporations. This is hard under our current system of government where a politician really needs corporate money for their campaign.

@Original Sin: Well, I agree. It's impossible to live a completely healthy and risk free life. We do the best we can, within reason. I've seen people obsessed with killing germs before they eat by washing their hands or using the antibacterial lotion. I don't do that because I like germs, they're tasty ;)

And just for the record, Skinny Bitch is not just about being vegan. It also did recommend giving up caffeine, and it said diet coke was liquid satan, and that you're completely joking yourself if you think diet coke doesn't contribute to obesity.
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Post by Potter » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:55 am

if you get fat off diet coke you need to do some fucking pushups
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Post by BigBadOrc » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:32 pm

blackcat wrote:Yeah, and im in love with the vegan monterrey jack cheese! Its so good!
malictus wrote:I guess I'm just wondering why we're all not dying left and right if meat is as bad for us as you're making it out to be.
Well, if it actually killed us, we might NOTICE :)

Here's doing a little research:

According to wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... expectancy, the united states is ranked #45 as a country by life expectancy. On average, we are 5.52 years behind Andorra, which is ranked #1.

World Health Organization health ranking, USA is #37: http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Wow, check this beauty out: USA is #1 for obesity! http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_o ... th-obesity

Let's take a look at cancer. It's a little harder to find good statistics on this, but I'll point you to page 43 of this document: http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/reprint/49/1/33.pdf Note that it's not sorted, but looking at the Incidence rate per 100,000 citizens, North America is a CLEAR WINNER for highest rate of cancer. For males, we sit at 370 per 100,000, and there's only one other region that's even over 300. (Australia/New Zealand is 313 per 100,000).
Last edited by BigBadOrc on Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Fluffyumpkins » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:18 pm

SoDeepPolaris wrote:
Fluffyumpkins wrote: Just as a personal reccomendation, don't give up on fish. The Omega-3 fatty acids are very beneficial to the cardiovascular system.
That's what flaxseed is for.
I suppose that works too. I'd still stick to fish though.

Also if you're in the city, Bloomingfoods is a great source (I've heard) of health food an such.

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Post by BigBadOrc » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:29 pm

yea man and i heard 126 1/2 N Walnut St has this restaurant called the roots that is like teh shit
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Post by Fluffyumpkins » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:44 pm

Well, your eating out options are pretty limited if you're going vegan. =\

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Post by BigBadOrc » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:02 pm

the roots = vegetarian only :)

But actually, they're really not that limited! I mean, we found out to NEVER EVER go to applebee's.... but there's lots of vegan foods that taste good - i bought some ice cream sandwiches that were somehow vegan last friday and they were really good. we have the ingredients for a vegan pepperoni pizza as well. it's a lot more cooking at home, and it's a little more expensive, but there's actually plenty of options.

I saw my doctor today (because apparently i've had strep throat for a week now.. since 2 days before i became vegan) and asked him how much training in nutrition he gets as an MD and he was like "very little."

then he said good luck with being vegan and advised me to take a multivitamin.

Edit: oh, i noticed that you said "eating out". Yes, this is perhaps true. Most places have at least one vegetarian dish though. right now we're going to chipotle to get a veggie burrito. They use guacamole and peppers instead.
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Post by hascoolnickname » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:13 pm

BigBadOrc wrote:It also did recommend giving up caffeine,
I'd probably cut it down as well, depending on how much you drink. Moderation is key. I don't drink it in the week nearly as much as I used to, so it definitely has more of an affect on me than someone who drinks it every morning. If you stop drinking coke for a few days and you get withdrawl headaches you know it's time to cut down :lol:
Original Sin wrote:Living in this age you are going to be exposed to toxins and chemicals regardless of what you eat. It's in the air, the soil, etc etc. As malictus pointed out, store bought plants also contain chemicals. The only way you're going to get away from encountering these toxins would be to move out to the middle of no where, grow your own plants and hunt your own game.
You wouldn't have to go to the middle of nowhere. In fact, you wouldn't have to go anywhere! You would have to leave your house if you wanted to hunt game, however.
BigBadOrc wrote: right now we're going to chipotle to get a veggie burrito. They use guacamole and peppers instead.
are those vegan? I know a lot of fast food chains have vegetarian substitutes but I am drawing a blank trying to think of one that serves vegan items.
Fluffyumpkins wrote:Well, your eating out options are pretty limited if you're going vegan. =\
depends on your local stores and how dedicated you are.
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Post by letshavetea » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:19 pm

Almost every restaurant will have some sort of veggie burger or something. If all else fails there's always Salad... you'd just have to tell em no cheese or something....

Also.. you can order pizzas from Pizza hut without cheese (not saying it's healthy, just saying that it IS an option)... it's weird as hell... but you can do it.

i'm freakin hungry....

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Post by malictus » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:52 pm

One bit of warning about health food stores such as Bloomingfoods. Check the ingrediants of your products carefully. Sometimes, you do indeed get healthier, simpler, food without additives. However, all too often, you get the very same food you'd get in the regular stores, with all the same additives and preservatives and such, but repackaged to look 'greener' and for a WHOLE lot more money. Just a warning to be careful...

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Post by SoDeepPolaris » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:47 pm

I've been off and on vegetarian/vegan diets for last couple years (from being strict veg to lacto ovo and everything in between).But one point I've always thought about is how does purchasing from an institution that involves itself with animal products affect your involvement of that animal usage?

Like, for instance take Boca Foods. Veggie and vegan products, taste good and they're generally pretty nutritious. However, they're a subsidiary of Kraft. Kraft produces tons of processed dairy and meat products, the majority of which really aren't good for you. In addition to that, Kraft is owned by Altria and Altria stockholders. ALTRIA (AKA PHILIP FUCKING MORRIS) is responsible for tons of cancerous products in our beloved modern world.

So, with a chain of command like that, does blissful ignorance come into play or do you have to make 100% conscious decisions to avoid giving even a penny to animal product using industries (i.e. not getting an eggplant pasta at Olive Garden)? Personally, I think giving money to those institutions helps them which in turn helps their dependency on animals for profits. You could argue in reverse that you aren't "directly" supporting that part, but unless there's a loss of profit you think accounting regards that?

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Post by Original Sin » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:11 pm

Wow, check this beauty out: USA is #1 for obesity! http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_o ... th-obesity
Of course America is number one for obesity...we don't know the meaning of moderation! As americans, we typically can afford to eat a lot, while a lot of other countries cannot. We also thrive on fast food, because we are likely to be eating 'on the go.' European countries do not eat this way, and thus, obesity is not really a big problem for them.
It's not what's IN our foods....it's how much of it we're shoveling into our mouths. If you go to Europe, you're not going to get an all you can eat platter....you're going to get a carefully planned, and likely very delicious, meal, and probably a glass of wine instead of a soft drink.
Even American fast food chains in europe have different menus, and smaller portions than ours here in the states.

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